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John R. Hogerhuis | 1 Oct 01:14
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Re: 8085 undoc instructions

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Daryl Tester
<dt-m100@...> wrote:

> (I'm not defending them - I just think judging people and situations
> with the benefit of hindsight and 30+ years of software development
> isn't that beneficial).
>

Well, I guess I phrased it badly. Rather than "less smart" I guess I
should have said "less capable given the mental tools available to
programmers of the day."

I wasn't trying to judge the raw intelligence of "people" I'm really
trying to get an understanding of the capability of the programming
population at the time.

For anyone who has written an 8085 assembler (I have) you immediately
find that the instruction set breaks into a few groups. I guess
structured programming was gaining popularity around 1970, so by the
mid to late 70's I think it's fair to expect programmers to be
thinking in terms of factoring their problem into functions (modules)
and subfunctions.

Certainly by the end of the 70's I think it would be hard to
understand such a position on the part of programmers, that it's just
too hard to add 12 instructions. Towards the beginning I guess you
could make a case that programmers just didn't have the mental tools
available.

Anyway, consider that there's another possibility. That the testing
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John R. Hogerhuis | 1 Oct 01:17
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Re: Bluetoothing a Model 100

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Peter Vollan <dprogram54@...> wrote:
> Where's hterm, please?
>

You're probably better off checking the list archives at Gmane for
"HTERM", since when I published the link to the list, I explained a
bit about what it does in the email.

But it's here with a few other things:

http://bitchin100.com/files/m10x/

-- John.
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M H Stein | 1 Oct 02:04

RE: 8085 undoc instructions

We also don't know what the management bureaucracy was like;
*officially* adding 12 instructions might have required 12^2 memos, 
requests for approval, budget adjustments, consultation with the 
sales dept.,etc. etc., possibly adding months to the release date...

***********************

----------
From: 	John R. Hogerhuis[SMTP:jhoger@...]
Sent: 	Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:14 PM
To: 	m100@...
Subject: 	Re: 8085 undoc instructions

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Daryl Tester
<dt-m100@...> wrote:

> (I'm not defending them - I just think judging people and situations
> with the benefit of hindsight and 30+ years of software development
> isn't that beneficial).
>

Well, I guess I phrased it badly. Rather than "less smart" I guess I
should have said "less capable given the mental tools available to
programmers of the day."

I wasn't trying to judge the raw intelligence of "people" I'm really
trying to get an understanding of the capability of the programming
population at the time.

For anyone who has written an 8085 assembler (I have) you immediately
(Continue reading)

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Frederick Whitaker | 1 Oct 03:33
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Re: OT: Floppy drive

If this is a regular IDE hard drive, it can be checked and reformatted
on another computer. If the hard drive is bad, and you don't have fdisk
in your ROM you will have to prepare the drive on another computer
anyway. You will also have to format it with partition sizes compatible
to the DOS in your ROM.

I suggest that you don't use a newer DOS than 6.0 or 6.2 since the
format itself may not be compatible with the format recognized by your
ROM.

Fred Whitaker

On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 17:59 -0500, J Bickhard wrote:
> I'm not sure if the old FD is accessable, the whole computer is in a
> pile on my floor, I'll get back on that...
> 
> Does the 1100FD ROM MS-DOS even have FDISK?
> 
> Jake (dats me)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Frederick Whitaker
> <rrtfw6923@...> wrote:
> > Can you access your old drive using Fdisk? If so, you might be able to save
> > the original.
> >
> > Fred Whitaker
> >
(Continue reading)

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John Whitton | 1 Oct 03:36

Re: OT: Floppy drive

Fred,

    Its a floppy disk system that he is dealing with..., not a hard drive.

John W.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frederick Whitaker" <rrtfw6923@...>
To: <m100@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Floppy drive

> If this is a regular IDE hard drive, it can be checked and reformatted
> on another computer. If the hard drive is bad, and you don't have fdisk
> in your ROM you will have to prepare the drive on another computer
> anyway. You will also have to format it with partition sizes compatible
> to the DOS in your ROM.
>
> I suggest that you don't use a newer DOS than 6.0 or 6.2 since the
> format itself may not be compatible with the format recognized by your
> ROM.
>
> Fred Whitaker
>
> On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 17:59 -0500, J Bickhard wrote:
>> I'm not sure if the old FD is accessable, the whole computer is in a
>> pile on my floor, I'll get back on that...
>>
>> Does the 1100FD ROM MS-DOS even have FDISK?
>>
(Continue reading)

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ray gordon | 1 Oct 03:46
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RE: OT: Floppy drive


I'm pretty sure that the 1100 came out the same time as the T1000SE;
which means the DOS in ROM is either 3.1 or 3.3
IIRC, Fdisk IS in the ROM...

> From: jwhitton@...
> To: m100@...
> Subject: Re: OT: Floppy drive
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:36:44 -0400
> 
> Fred,
> 
>     Its a floppy disk system that he is dealing with..., not a hard drive.
> 
> John W.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Frederick Whitaker" <rrtfw6923@...>
> To: <m100@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Floppy drive
> 
> 
> > If this is a regular IDE hard drive, it can be checked and reformatted
> > on another computer. If the hard drive is bad, and you don't have fdisk
> > in your ROM you will have to prepare the drive on another computer
> > anyway. You will also have to format it with partition sizes compatible
> > to the DOS in your ROM.
> >
> > I suggest that you don't use a newer DOS than 6.0 or 6.2 since the
(Continue reading)

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Frederick Whitaker | 2 Oct 02:00
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Re: OT: Floppy drive

I have noticed an interesting feature of our list. If more than one 
thing is mentioned in a single email, the second item is ignored or 
perhaps not even seen. As I was reading this thread I noticed that not 
only is he talking about a floppy disk, he is also talking about the 
hard drive in the 1100HD. I'm sorry if I have offended you by pointing 
this out.

Fred Whitaker

John Whitton wrote:
> Fred,
>
>    Its a floppy disk system that he is dealing with..., not a hard drive.
>
> John W.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Whitaker" 
> <rrtfw6923@...>
> To: <m100@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Floppy drive
>
>
>> If this is a regular IDE hard drive, it can be checked and reformatted
>> on another computer. If the hard drive is bad, and you don't have fdisk
>> in your ROM you will have to prepare the drive on another computer
>> anyway. You will also have to format it with partition sizes compatible
>> to the DOS in your ROM.
>>
>> I suggest that you don't use a newer DOS than 6.0 or 6.2 since the
(Continue reading)

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John Whitton | 2 Oct 02:23

Re: OT: Floppy drive

Fred,

    I'm un-offendable. or maybe eminently offendable, not sure which .... 
:-)

    I regularly lose the thread...,but I thought Jake's difficulties lie 
solely in the operation/non-operation of his floppy drive. I 
missed/overlooked the HD portion of the discussion. Sorry.

John W.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frederick Whitaker" <rrtfw6923@...>
To: <m100@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Floppy drive

>I have noticed an interesting feature of our list. If more than one thing 
>is mentioned in a single email, the second item is ignored or perhaps not 
>even seen. As I was reading this thread I noticed that not only is he 
>talking about a floppy disk, he is also talking about the hard drive in the 
>1100HD. I'm sorry if I have offended you by pointing this out.
>
> Fred Whitaker
>
> John Whitton wrote:
>> Fred,
>>
>>    Its a floppy disk system that he is dealing with..., not a hard drive.
>>
(Continue reading)

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M H Stein | 2 Oct 04:24

RE: OT: Floppy drive

I think what John was pointing out is that Jake doesn't *have* a hard disk
in his system, so your asking him to Fdisk and move the HD to another
computer seemed to indicate that you were on the wrong track.

If I understood correctly Jake was considering buying a system on eBay
with a defective HD to replace his floppy-only system and asking whether
a replacement drive for that would be hard to install.

m
************************************************************************************

----------
From: 	Frederick Whitaker[SMTP:rrtfw6923@...]
Sent: 	Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:00 PM
To: 	m100@...
Subject: 	Re: OT: Floppy drive

I have noticed an interesting feature of our list. If more than one 
thing is mentioned in a single email, the second item is ignored or 
perhaps not even seen. As I was reading this thread I noticed that not 
only is he talking about a floppy disk, he is also talking about the 
hard drive in the 1100HD. I'm sorry if I have offended you by pointing 
this out.

Fred Whitaker

John Whitton wrote:
> Fred,
>
>    Its a floppy disk system that he is dealing with..., not a hard drive.
(Continue reading)

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J Bickhard | 2 Oct 14:09
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Re: OT: Floppy drive

You hit the nail on the head there...

Jake (dats me)

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:24 PM, M H Stein <dm561@...> wrote:
> I think what John was pointing out is that Jake doesn't *have* a hard disk
> in his system, so your asking him to Fdisk and move the HD to another
> computer seemed to indicate that you were on the wrong track.
>
> If I understood correctly Jake was considering buying a system on eBay
> with a defective HD to replace his floppy-only system and asking whether
> a replacement drive for that would be hard to install.
>
> m
> ************************************************************************************
>
> ----------
> From:   Frederick Whitaker[SMTP:rrtfw6923@...]
> Sent:   Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:00 PM
> To:     m100@...
> Subject:        Re: OT: Floppy drive
>
> I have noticed an interesting feature of our list. If more than one
> thing is mentioned in a single email, the second item is ignored or
> perhaps not even seen. As I was reading this thread I noticed that not
> only is he talking about a floppy disk, he is also talking about the
> hard drive in the 1100HD. I'm sorry if I have offended you by pointing
> this out.
>
> Fred Whitaker
(Continue reading)

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