Business analyst ROM and T102

Seems that, in virtualT, business analyst ROM does not run.  Interesting.

I think it is safe to say that this rom will not work in T102 (using
the T102 main rom).

So, for REX users, in order to run this rom, you should use "rom
replacement" and run an M100 main rom in the T102.  IE regress your
main rom.

RE: Low cost 2400 baud

I've thought about using those, maybe a pair on different frequencies
for two-way operation (even half-duplex is two-way), and Steve and
I chatted about them briefly some time ago. But someone who did 
in fact use them had a lot of trouble with background noise (as the
referenced article also mentions) and decided to use Yishi modules
instead with much better success.

http://www.yishi.net.cn/rf/index.asp

Still, worth playing with at that price.

mike
******************************************************************************

----------
From: 	Vic Boudolf[SMTP:paperbook@...]
Sent: 	Monday, August 31, 2009 4:10 PM
To: 	m100@...
Subject: 	Low cost 2400 baud

http://www.glacialwanderer.com/hobbyrobotics/?p=291

only one way, not full duplex, but useful and cheap.

Re: Business analyst ROM and T102

Hi Steve,

No problem, although I'm not too worried about running Business Analyst 
in my M102, I am curious about the ROM replacement feature of REX.  Can 
you point me to detailed steps to load the current ROM into REX and also 
the extra wire you have to install?  I saw a picture somewhere of a 
switch that you could use to enable the default ROM or the ROM in REX 
presumably just by throwing that switch -- while the machine is off, 
obviously! 

The schematics show me where the CS line runs, so I guess this would 
also involve cutting a track on the main board?

Do I understand the schematic correctly, in that either the main ROM or 
the option ROM is switched into the same memory space, one at a time?  I 
had no idea... (thinking) that would mean that the code in the option 
ROM would not have access to the utility functions in the main ROM for 
reading the keyboard, writing to the LCD, etc... surely that's not the case?

Probably my biggest driver is being able to have the M102 display a date 
in the current century!  A small, nit-picky thing, I know, but fun, 
none-the-less. 

Cheers,    Bert

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Seems that, in virtualT, business analyst ROM does not run.  Interesting.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that this rom will not work in T102 (using
> the T102 main rom).

Re: Swapping ROMs in REX

That's OK, my Tandy EC-4013 made short work of the hex to decimal 
conversion...  

Cheers,    Bert

Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I think I will change the checksum function to report 16 bit checksum
> as 4 hex characters.  This will be  easier to use I think.
> 
> ..Steve
> 
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:43 PM, John R. Hogerhuis<jhoger@...> wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Stephen
Adolph<twospruces@...> wrote:
>>> I've added it.  I've never had a problem by not having it.  It will be
>>> in the next release.
>> Awesome 
>>
>> -- John.
>>
> 

Re: Business analyst ROM and T102

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Bert Put<bput@...> wrote:

> Do I understand the schematic correctly, in that either the main ROM or the
> option ROM is switched into the same memory space, one at a time?  I had no
> idea... (thinking) that would mean that the code in the option ROM would not
> have access to the utility functions in the main ROM for reading the
> keyboard, writing to the LCD, etc... surely that's not the case?

Well you need to copy a trampoline routine into RAM to round-trip to
the Main ROM and back to the OptROM. Basically your "thread of
control" program counter needs to be in RAM while you do the switch,
and when you switch back else you will end up in some random ROM code.

Another big concern when making an OptROM is that the OptROM is
responsible for handling interrupts when it is switched in. Generally
you just put a small stub that, through a trampoline in RAM can bounce
into ROM to use the default interrupt handler, and back again.

This stuff is all covered in "Secrets of the ROM" by Mo Budlong. Also
there are some docs at Club100. Look at the "Secrets of the ROM
Revealed" section at the bottom of this page:

http://club100.org/library/libref.html

Really, I think it would be interesting to collaborate with Steve
Adolph to make some OptROM program skeletons/templates. He learned a
bit about making OptROMs creating REX, and that could be enshrined in
a little framework I think to make it relatively easy to create new
OptROMs.

Re: Business analyst ROM and T102

At 10:27 PM 8/31/2009, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>Well you need to copy a trampoline routine into RAM... [snip]

At what?  I think I once heard of a swing set program and a monkey 
bar program but a trampoline routine?  Gee wiz John ... I had no idea 
this could be so much fun! -Rick- 

READ

REX compatibility with other M100 things

It has been discussed, but not stated clearly on the REX wiki, but REX
is NOT COMPATIBLE with certain M100 software and devices.

Specifically,

POWER-DOS
PCSG RAM MODULES

...and other things as well I am sure.

The incompatibility lies in the software.  REX requires that a
specific invisible .BA program called RXHOOK be present as the "first
basic program" at the lowest memory location, making this a form of
"LOWMEM software".

These incompatible applications also use LOWMEM software, and as such
they overlap and will cause problems.

So, you cannot use REX today with those applications.

I will look into changes I can make to allow these things to coexist,
but I don't have all variants of what is possible, so it is hard for
me to ensure it works with everything.

If you own a REX and you are using it with some other piece of
internal memory system, in general I would say it is not compatible -
it is one or the other.

..Steve

Re: Business analyst ROM and T102

Hi Bert-

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Bert Put<bput@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> No problem, although I'm not too worried about running Business Analyst in
> my M102, I am curious about the ROM replacement feature of REX.  Can you
> point me to detailed steps to load the current ROM into REX and also the
> extra wire you have to install?  I saw a picture somewhere of a switch that
> you could use to enable the default ROM or the ROM in REX presumably just by
> throwing that switch -- while the machine is off, obviously! 
>

I do not have this documented yet.

Essentially, you must
1) make sure the block number 3 in REX has an M100 rom image in it.  I
have a utility for this.
2) you need to disable your internal ROM, and connect the /CS signal
to TP1 on REX.

The details for 1 and 2 are not yet documented, but are pretty simple to do.

WRT using a switch, I'll leave that to you to figure out.   I don't
want to develop a long laundry list of mods for this.

> The schematics show me where the CS line runs, so I guess this would also
> involve cutting a track on the main board?

Lots of different ways to do this.

Re: REX compatibility with other M100 things

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Stephen Adolph<twospruces@...> wrote:

> I will look into changes I can make to allow these things to coexist,
> but I don't have all variants of what is possible, so it is hard for
> me to ensure it works with everything.
>

Relocating injector for a HIMEM version of RXHOOK would do it, right?

If the point is to avoid LOMEM programs, make a HIMEM program.

Unless other stuff depend on the absolute location of code in RXHOOK.

So if anything calls into RXHOOK, it would have change to make
vectored calls to RXHOOK through a RAM pointer.

-- John.