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Xiaofan Chen | 1 Feb 01:08
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Re: [EE]:: Vista madness

On Feb 1, 2008 12:54 AM, Bob Blick <bbblick <at> sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> --- "M. Adam Davis" <stienman <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, I run Vista 64 on a custom built system and
> > while it has its
> > annoyances, I just don't see why people are having
> > such difficulty.

I agree with Adam. I just do not know why people in this
list (mostly not average home users). My wife is
an average user and she is happy with Vista now.

> If you run Vista 64 on a custom built system, I'd say
> that you like fiddling with computers and there's not
> much you'd consider an "annoyance" or "difficulty".
> Perhaps you are not a "fanboy" or "apologist", but
> clearly you are not an average home or business user.
> But people like me need people like you to work out
> the bugs, because I don't like it when computers need
> to be coaxed to work. How well does MPLAB run on Vista
> 64? How many versions of it have you installed? Was
> that fun?

MPLAB is not supported under Vista 64 since the drivers
(ICD2 etc) are not ported to Vista 64 yet. However
Vista 32 works fine.

> When I sit at a computer I want the time to be
> billable hours.
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Vitaliy | 1 Feb 01:23

Re: [EE] Schematic capture/pcb layout of circuits with extremelylargenumbers of repetitive parts?

Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Personally I do not want to pay for anything software (even though it
> only costs US$10) if I am just playing with something as a hobby. But
> I am willing to pay for the hardware even though it costs US$100.
> And for low cost software, often there are open source alternatives
> which can do the job.

Your logic doesn't make any sense.

So you wouldn't pay $10 for a program, even if it saves you 100 hours of 
effort, compared to an open-source alternative? If that is the case, why 
don't you build your own hardware, instead of buying it?

I know why most people "do not want to pay for anything software": because 
they can steal it for free. 

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Jim Korman | 1 Feb 01:48
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Re: [OT] Military Surplus

Artie Jones wrote:
> Years ago, I used to be in some sort of military surplus snail mail list,
> they send you lists of parts available for bidding and sealed bids are
> opened a number of weeks later. There was no internet in those days::>
>
> I tried searching with Google, but all I can find is company's trying to get
> me to pay money to buy an information packet from them!!! In the packet is
> (supposedly) the information I need to get  onto the surplus list.
>
> Does anyone know how to join the surplus list without having to pay a pretty
> penny for the  'how to' package?
>
> Thanks,
>
> T
>   
Have you checked the DRMO site?

http://www.drms.dla.mil/sales/

Jim
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Tamas Rudnai | 1 Feb 01:53
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Re: [PIC] Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Hi Wouter,

For my clone (used in http://www.voti.nl/hvu/2TPRJ5/index.html - page is
> dutch dutch only,

Don't worry, Google Translator makes a pretty good job on it ;-)
Unfortunately I have to translate it even though my father was born in
Holland.

> but this file with the schematics is in english:
> http://www.voti.nl/hvu/2TPRJ5/DB037.doc ) I used a resonator instead of
> a crystal + capacitors. I am not sure if this is within USB spces, but
> so far no problem.

That board look pretty cool :-)  Everything is on that board that is
important to learn pic programming and even includes the PicKit2. Was that
designed specially for the lab in your university?

He uses a 100n C on Vubs, I think uChip requires 470n.
>

Yes, that should be changed for sure, I think the datasheet says 220nF so
100nF is not the best choice for sure.

The bleeders R1 and R13 are rather high, I would go for 1k or maybe even
> 470R.

I just told him your thoughts, he said R13 was chosen as the same value was
in the upgraded version on the original PicKit2 (R34 on that schematics). R1
could be smaller he says, but in that way the current consumption was a bit
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Xiaofan Chen | 1 Feb 02:48
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Re: [EE] Schematic capture/pcb layout of circuits with extremelylargenumbers of repetitive parts?

On 2/1/08, Vitaliy <spam <at> maksimov.org> wrote:
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > Personally I do not want to pay for anything software (even though it
> > only costs US$10) if I am just playing with something as a hobby. But
> > I am willing to pay for the hardware even though it costs US$100.
> > And for low cost software, often there are open source alternatives
> > which can do the job.
>
> Your logic doesn't make any sense.

If it is a hobby, it can be not logical. You like it and you spend time on it,
not for money, but for the perceived pleasure.

> So you wouldn't pay $10 for a program, even if it saves you 100 hours of
> effort, compared to an open-source alternative? If that is the case, why
> don't you build your own hardware, instead of buying it?
>

If it is for work, I am willing to convince my manager to buy the best tools.
If it is a hobby, I am willing to spend time to mess with it. Because I do not
play with these open source softwares at work, I am willing to play with
them at home. Messing with certain type of softwares are kind of my hobby. ;-)

Because I build hardware at work, I do not want to build hardware at home.
But I need some hardware to test the firmware/software, so I am willing
to buy it since I do not want to build it by myself.

Take note I am mainly a hardware engineer. So I am not interested to do
hardware at home.
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Xiaofan Chen | 1 Feb 03:02
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Re: [EE]:: Vista madness

On 2/1/08, Michael Rigby-Jones <Michael.Rigby-Jones <at> bookham.com> wrote:
>
>
> > But at the end of the day, if you want to complain about speed, the
> > constant upgrade mill, DRM, bloatware, etc then you should probably
> > just move to Linux.
>
> IME most Linux distributions 'suffer' from the same fate as MS's
> offerings.  Every new generation seems runs slower and require more
> hardware resources.

That is if you are doing the same type of work and use the same
type of software. In that case, I think that is the norm for the IT
industry as a whole. So you have to live with it.

But the new (and hence the "greatest") software will enable you
to do new things right out of the box.

You can always keep your old stuff around.

> I bought a new laptop (in a hurry as previous one died) that
> unfortunately came with Vista.  I decided to stick with it to see if I
> could learn to like it, but even with all the fancy graphics turned off,
> and the interface set to "classic" mode I still end up getting
> frustrated with it, so it will be replaced with XP as soon as I have
> time.

If you get frustrated by Vista so soon, no wonder you get frustrated
with Linux as well.
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Tobias Gogolin | 1 Feb 03:03
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Re: [EE] Near future of 8086 Processors?

Yes There is transmeta, cyrix , via and maybe another few little ones, but
Im looking for the realistic affordable high end processor!
But what do you think 8 cores in 2008, 16 in 2009?

On Jan 31, 2008 2:57 PM, Shawn Tan <shawn.tan <at> aeste.net> wrote:

> On Thursday 31 January 2008 20:24:42 Tobias Gogolin wrote:
> > Im thinking as wide an as fast as possible (overclockable)
> > But in the real wold there are 2 big manufacturers and so far dual and
> quad
> > cores!
> > Im also very power conscious and I want to be conservative, so Im
> guessing
> > smallest feature size is best!
>
> Hehe, people tend to forget VIA. They've pretty much cornered the low end
> mini/nano/pico-itx business. And their latest Isaiah core is getting good
> reviews. I've always been a fan of VIA x86 processors.
>
> If you're extremely power conscious, look at VIA. I would be interested on
> how
> they compare with Geode processors though. AMD seems to only do Geode
> benchmarks againts other Geode processors.
>
> > Its funny the other day I was giving a presentation on parallel
> computing
> > and nobody guessed the actual transistor count that has been
> exponentially
> > rising with Moores law!
> > More than 300 Millions on a regular Graphics Processor, simply Amazing!
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Dr Skip | 1 Feb 03:08
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Re: [EE]:: Vista madness

Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> I agree with Adam. I just do not know why people in this
> list (mostly not average home users). My wife is
> an average user and she is happy with Vista now.

That's EXACTLY why... ;)

Run just simple stuff, or "Vista approved" stuff, don't dig too far, trust 
Microsoft, and you will be happy.

However, those on the list also expect it to be (as it should be) a Win32 
system. It should be backwards compatible, we have work to do and have numerous 
apps that do our tasks and expect the next incarnation of the Win32 type OS to 
work with it. These are apps made to use Microsoft's win32 architecture and 
API. They should work. Use just a few basic apps, like the stuff that ships 
with it, and you won't notice.

I suspect she also doesn't much care about firewalls, assorted odd services, 
etc, that run, as well as any and all auto-updating from Microsoft or such.

However, those of us that have apps that may break after some errant update by 
Microsoft choose to read what they apply to and pick what we need. We may not 
trust the firewall, etc. <I noticed the Comodo firewall has built in 
permissions to go out to Comodo, non-revokable. A DNS hijack and they're all at 
risk.>

I get settings that go back to original all the time. If I just accept the 
defaults on everything, then I guess life would be fine, but that's not what 
I've come to expect, and the defaults are not appropriate for me. So, a lot of 
wasted time and frustration, just at that level. Throw in the slow file copies
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Xiaofan Chen | 1 Feb 03:14
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Re: [EE]:: Vista madness

On 2/1/08, Dr Skip <drskip <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> You forgot new users... I've been helping some 'older' folks learn windows and
> even under XP it is frustrating, but at least consistent. With Vista's
> ever-self-changing settings, combined with the users' memory, it would be
> impossible!

I think Adam's analysis is great. But for the folks who do not like changes,
'older' system may be better. So my mum is still using the 8-year old Windows
98SE Lenovo system since she only uses two programs at home (IE and
a Chinese poker game). My dad, on the other hand, would like to use
faster and greater machine. So we bought him a Lenovo Windows XP
computer last year so he could play on-line games (I do not play
games) faster and enjoy better surfing.

Xiaofan
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Xiaofan Chen | 1 Feb 03:28
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Re: [EE]:: Vista madness

On 2/1/08, Dr Skip <drskip <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> I get settings that go back to original all the time. If I just accept the
> defaults on everything, then I guess life would be fine, but that's not what
> I've come to expect, and the defaults are not appropriate for me. So, a lot of
> wasted time and frustration, just at that level. Throw in the slow file copies
> to anywhere (MS admits it), the firewall deficiencies, the services
> incompatibilities, the numerous services that do phone home all the time, the
> odd API breakages, UAC and having to wrestle ownership of files all the time,
> junction points that recurse forever... the list goes on...

In this case, I think this has something to do with the fact that you
are using Vista Home Premium. I am also dissappointed that some
great features in Vista (Business/Ultimate) is not available under
Vista Home Premium. For example, group policy settings.

And you may have to wait for SP1 or even SP2 to get better user
experiences. But take note when Windows XP SP2 came out, a lot
of the applications also broke. And if you move to Linux, most
Windows application will break.

> Is it stable? Perhaps, although IE7 has 'unexpectedly terminated' many times so
> far on a vanilla Vista system. Other apps do off and on too. It recovers fine,
> maybe better than XP might have for whatever it didn't like, but the session is
> still lost (multiple tabs). Life isn't perfect even with the apps it ships with...
>

That is the norm for the software industry as a whole now. I will say I have
more problems with IBM (Lotus notes) and Firefox than Microsoft Outlook/IE.
So life is not perfect with the IT industry as a whole. And occassionally
SAP still comes out with some error message in German.
(Continue reading)

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Gmane