headers
Moses McKnight | 1 Sep 2007 01:03

Re: [PIC] - Best all around programmer

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Moses McKnight wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>     I'm currently using a Melabs serial programmer and I have an ICD2
>> clone from Hong Kong, but they belong to my boss and I need to get my
>> own at some time.  What I would like to find is one programmer that will
>> do both LVP
> 
> Why LVP ? Very few uses LVP.

I was under the impression that in-circuit programming was LVP (low
voltage programming).  Is that not the case?  Even so, ICSP uses some
pins that cannot be used for I/O and I have already done projects where
I needed every available I/O pin.  So I need a programmer with high
voltage programming.  What I'm hoping is to be able to get one that does
both instead of having to get two programmers.

>  > and HVP so I can do in-circuit programming and debugging,
>  > and also high voltage programming for projects like the two I've done
>> where we used all 16 I/O pins on a PIC16F819 and could not do LVP.  The
>> last thing is that I need it to work with Linux.
>>     Is there such a beast?  If not, what are the best alternatives -
>> especially for working in Linux?
> 
> If you actualy needs/wants ICD the available opitions are fewer.
> Personly I use one popular hobbyist programmer called
> Wisp628 found here : http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index.html

I just looked at the Wisp628 again and it says it is and in-circuit
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 6 comments |
headers
William "Chops" Westfield | 1 Sep 2007 01:58
Picon

Re: [OT] LinuxBIOS


On Aug 31, 2007, at 5:18 AM, Peter Todd wrote:

> "Supported by LinuxBIOS" is supposed to be a feature. And besides, the
> info needed isn't really all that strategic, it's just initialization,
> not some grand secret.

I agree that the information SHOULDN'T be "strategic", but that  
doesn't mean that getting it is easy or even possible.  I've had some  
recent experience with Intel's "Colored" databooks: Yellow for "not  
public", orange for "secret, return when done", and red for (I dunno,  
didn't get to see any RED books.)  The info needed to write chipset  
initialization wasn't in the yellow books...

On the other hand, part of the point is that linux/etc does its own  
HW initialization anyway (or a large part of it; I've never looked at  
the very low level linux init code.  For instance, I was more than  
willing to let the BIOS initialize all the PCI buses and bridges  
before my "bare hardware" code went out and looked for devices it  
understood.)
That means that some of the initialization data has to be out there  
for the linux developers to use anyway.  (and on the gripping hand,  
one of the reasons to have a 'real' bios is so that it will  
initialized AND TURN OFF all those devices that the operating system  
DOESN'T understand!)

BillW
--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Jinx | 1 Sep 2007 02:19
Picon

Re: [EE] Detecting EMF?


> IIRC you only actually need the license if the equipment is set up
> to be capable of watching TV

I think that's the key word - capable. You would have a tough job
convincing the authorities that a TV had only ever been used to
watch DVDs. Frankly, they wouldn't listen, because if there's a tuner
it needs a licence. A player + monitor (ie no reception capability at
all) would not need a licence

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Permalink | Reply | 11 comments |
headers
Jinx | 1 Sep 2007 02:29
Picon

Re: [PIC] PIC16F690 internal oscillator stability.

> Can I really rely on the internal oscillator for USART

Probably, except if very cold or very hot (see Table 17.2), which
you could test for yourself with a freezer / oven. 3% is reckoned to
be about the difference limit

--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Herbert Graf | 1 Sep 2007 02:33

Re: [PIC] - Best all around programmer

On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 18:03 -0500, Moses McKnight wrote:
> I was under the impression that in-circuit programming was LVP (low
> voltage programming).  Is that not the case?  

That is not the case. ICSP says nothing about HVP or LVP. Most ICSP I've
used use HVP.

> Even so, ICSP uses some
> pins that cannot be used for I/O and I have already done projects where
> I needed every available I/O pin.  So I need a programmer with high
> voltage programming.  

ICSP uses IO pins to program, true, but this has nothing to do with
whether it's done using LVP or HVP. A good programmer will tristate it's
drivers after programming, and a good PIC design will allow the
programmer to drive those lines when needed.

TTYL

--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
peter green | 1 Sep 2007 03:18

Re: [PIC] - Best all around programmer


> I was under the impression that in-circuit programming was LVP (low
> voltage programming).  Is that not the case?  Even so, ICSP uses some
> pins that cannot be used for I/O and I have already done projects where
> I needed every available I/O pin.  So I need a programmer with high
> voltage programming.  What I'm hoping is to be able to get one that does
> both instead of having to get two programmers.
>   
Your impressions are rather wrong

Pics are always programmed serially. Whether they are sitting in a 
target circuit or a socket dedicated to programming is generally 
irrelvent to the programmer circuit. Hardly any programmers use LVP, it 
wastes an IO pin on the target device and leaves a much greater 
possibility of the device going into program mode inadvertantly during 
normal operation. Really the only advantage of LVP is it saves on parts 
in the programmer.

There is no reason you can't use every IO line and program in circuit. 
Resistors can be added such that the programmer and pic can control the 
line during programming but the line can be used as an input or low 
power output when the circuit is in use. If you decide to disable MCLR 
programming gets a little tricker because the programmer needs to 
control VDD to get such chips into program mode but there are 
programmers that can control VDD and provide sufficiant current to drive 
a large target circuit (for example olin's proprog).

--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 3 comments |
headers
Moses McKnight | 1 Sep 2007 04:12

Re: [PIC] - Best all around programmer

peter green wrote:
>> I was under the impression that in-circuit programming was LVP (low
>> voltage programming).  Is that not the case?  Even so, ICSP uses some
>> pins that cannot be used for I/O and I have already done projects where
>> I needed every available I/O pin.  So I need a programmer with high
>> voltage programming.  What I'm hoping is to be able to get one that does
>> both instead of having to get two programmers.
>>   
> Your impressions are rather wrong
> 
> Pics are always programmed serially. Whether they are sitting in a 
> target circuit or a socket dedicated to programming is generally 
> irrelvent to the programmer circuit. Hardly any programmers use LVP, it 
> wastes an IO pin on the target device and leaves a much greater 
> possibility of the device going into program mode inadvertantly during 
> normal operation. Really the only advantage of LVP is it saves on parts 
> in the programmer.
> 
> There is no reason you can't use every IO line and program in circuit. 
> Resistors can be added such that the programmer and pic can control the 
> line during programming but the line can be used as an input or low 
> power output when the circuit is in use. If you decide to disable MCLR 
> programming gets a little tricker because the programmer needs to 
> control VDD to get such chips into program mode but there are 
> programmers that can control VDD and provide sufficiant current to drive 
> a large target circuit (for example olin's proprog).

Ok, I'm remembering some more now - it's been a number of months since I
looked into programmers last and I knew way less about PIC chips then
than I do now (which is still not a fantastic lot).  I think the main
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 2 comments |
headers
Marcel Duchamp | 1 Sep 2007 04:12
Picon
Favicon

Re: [EE] Detecting EMF?

Jinx wrote:
  > http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp
> 

After all this discussion about TV licensing in the UK, finally a page 
with the cost.

(A colour TV Licence costs £135.50
and
a black and white licence costs £45.50 ANNUALLY)

 >> IIRC you only actually need the license if the equipment is set up
 >> to be capable of watching TV

Interesting to me at least, even if blind and thus you are not WATCHING 
TV, you still must pay, albeit, 50%.

Do they also charge a license fee for radio?

Missing from the discussion is how do the UK citizens feel about the 
license system?  I imagine some percentage are against it (some 
percentage are always against "IT")...
--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Permalink | Reply | 10 comments |
headers
Xiaofan Chen | 1 Sep 2007 04:15
Picon

Re: [PIC] - Best all around programmer

On 9/1/07, Moses McKnight <moses@...> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
>    I'm currently using a Melabs serial programmer and I have an ICD2
> clone from Hong Kong, but they belong to my boss and I need to get my
> own at some time.  What I would like to find is one programmer that will
> do both LVP and HVP so I can do in-circuit programming and debugging,
> and also high voltage programming for projects like the two I've done
> where we used all 16 I/O pins on a PIC16F819 and could not do LVP.  The
> last thing is that I need it to work with Linux.
>    Is there such a beast?  If not, what are the best alternatives -
> especially for working in Linux?
>

Other people have comments about LVP so I will not repeat.

For programming under Linux Wisp628 is a good choice.
PICkit 2 is a good choice as well. pk2 is quite ok even though
it currently only supports the old firmware. piklab is another
choice. The next version of pk2 will support PICkit 2 firmware
V2 but we have to wait for it. piklab supports ICD2 under
Linux as a programmer. Last time when I tested it, it worked
with 16F819.

For debugging under Linux, IMHO piklab/ICD2 is the only viable
choice and I am not so sure how well it works. It lists 16F819 as
supported but not tested. I do not have a proper ICD 2 now
so I have not really supported testing of ICD2 for piklab. And
piklab does not work with PICkit 2 firmware V2 so my involvement
with piklab is limited right now.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Xiaofan Chen | 1 Sep 2007 04:22
Picon

Re: [PIC] - Best all around programmer

On 9/1/07, Moses McKnight <moses@...> wrote:
> Ok, I'm remembering some more now - it's been a number of months since I
> looked into programmers last and I knew way less about PIC chips then
> than I do now (which is still not a fantastic lot).  I think the main
> problem I had was that I had to disable MCLR and couldn't program the
> chip using ICD2.  The melabs programmer works just fine for that.  I was
> confusing LVP with ICSP, and it is ICSP I couldn't do (at least with the
> ICD2) with MCLR disabled.
>

ICD2 and Wisp628 do not control Vdd so they have problems with
this setup.

PICkit 2 and some other programmers like USBprog from Olin will
control Vdd/Vpp so that they have less probelms with this kind of
configuration (Eg: internal MCLR and internal RC).

This is one of the reasons why I say PICkit 2 is a better programmer
than ICD2. PICkit 2 is also much cheaper than ICD2. It is also
cheaper than most of the proper ICD2 clone.

Regards,
Xiaofan
--

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Permalink | Reply | 1 comment |

Gmane