The universal keyboard is the tiny one that doesn't have a dedicated
number row.

The Sierra is the full sized descendant of the thinkoutside stowaway
that folds in four parts.

Both use the same driver from now iGo

Can anyone confirm that the file in this forum to run the dvorak on
the universal keyboard on Palm OS also works with the Sierra?

Thanks!

August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.

Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).

that is kinda funny,, wonder if sholes ever learned qwerty

Bob

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, pbrun01 wrote:

> August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.
>
> Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
> developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
> type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).
>
>

-
end
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occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
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I guess that makes sense, considering so many attached to QWERTY.
This probably is what gave him the objective attitude.

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Accessys <at> smart.net <accessys <at> smart.net> wrote:
>
> that is kinda funny,, wonder if sholes ever learned qwerty
>
>
> Bob
>
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, pbrun01 wrote:
>
>> August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.
>>
>> Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
>> developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
>> type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).
>>
>>
>
> -
> end
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob
> .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys <at> smartnospam.net
> .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers
> .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right
> *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
> THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
> privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Shane
http://www.shaneduan.com

And Frank Gilbreth taught his kids to touch type before he learned how to.
I'm not sure that he ended up learning, actually, but if he did, he couldn't
have gotten so good as his kids.

Tom!

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Shane Duan <shane.duan <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess that makes sense, considering so many attached to QWERTY.
> This probably is what gave him the objective attitude.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Accessys <at> smart.net<Accessys%40smart.net><
> accessys <at> smart.net <accessys%40smart.net>> wrote:
> >
> > that is kinda funny,, wonder if sholes ever learned qwerty
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, pbrun01 wrote:
> >
> >> August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.
> >>
> >> Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
> >> developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
> >> type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).
> >>
> >>
> >
> > -
> > end
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> > safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob
> > .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys <at> smartnospam.net<accessys%40smartnospam.net>
> > .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers
> > .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right
> >
> *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
> > THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
> > privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com<altkeyboards%40eGroups.com>
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> altkeyboards-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo<altkeyboards-unsubscribe%40eGroups.comYahoo>!
> Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Shane
> http://www.shaneduan.com
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds very
fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.

Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was working on
the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements with
other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on the
home row.

Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a coworker
or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
category.

Paul Martzen

I'd really like to see where that claim came from. Even if you
exclude the few pages that talk about keyboards, Dvorak et al's
_Typewriting Behavior_ is all about fast, efficient typing. The idea
of Dvorak typing with only two or four fingers is anathema.

I would be less surprised to hear someone claim that Dvorak didn't
type at all. He might well have written some or all of his text and
correspondence longhand, or dictated it for transcription. But even
if a secretary or casual observer said they never _saw_ him type,
that's no proof he _couldn't_ type.

Marcus
Billions of people never saw me ride a bicycle. Some who did probably
still don't believe it.

On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:36 PM, Paul Martzen wrote:

> The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds very
> fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
> I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
>
> Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
> working on
> the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
> with
> other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
> length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on the
> home row.
>
> Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
> unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
> coworker
> or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
> category.
>
> Paul Martzen
>

Ben Cohen sold me his complete collection of the newsletter
called "Quick Strokes" that was put out quarterly (I think) by a
group called Dvorak International (or something like that) from the
mid-1970s to around 1990. It's pretty nerdy stuff, but I glanced
through this stack of newsletters and there was an article about the
death of August Dvorak in 1975 or 1976. In the article were some
comments from his wife including the revelation that he never learned
to touch-type. When I get home after work I'll scan the article and
post it up. I too found this surprising.
-Peter

--- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, Paul Martzen <paul_martzen <at> ...>
wrote:
>
> The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds
very
> fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
> I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
>
> Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
working on
> the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
with
> other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
> length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on
the
> home row.
>
> Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
> unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
coworker
> or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
> category.
>
> Paul Martzen
>

It would definitely be cool to read that article, Peter.

I guess I don't find it all that surprising that he wasn't a typist.
Being a non-typist could make him completely impartial to any
implementation (a necessary attitude in seeking the ultimate layout).

I'm sure it's documented somewhere (I've done little reading), but I
guess the context I would need to fully formulate an opinion is, what
got Dvorak into this line of research to begin with?

Joey

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:32 AM, pbrun01 <pbrun01 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ben Cohen sold me his complete collection of the newsletter
> called "Quick Strokes" that was put out quarterly (I think) by a
> group called Dvorak International (or something like that) from the
> mid-1970s to around 1990. It's pretty nerdy stuff, but I glanced
> through this stack of newsletters and there was an article about the
> death of August Dvorak in 1975 or 1976. In the article were some
> comments from his wife including the revelation that he never learned
> to touch-type. When I get home after work I'll scan the article and
> post it up. I too found this surprising.
> -Peter
>
> --- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, Paul Martzen <paul_martzen <at> ...>
> wrote:
>>
>> The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds
> very
>> fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
>> I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
>>
>> Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
> working on
>> the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
> with
>> other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
>> length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on
> the
>> home row.
>>
>> Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
>> unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
> coworker
>> or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
>> category.
>>
>> Paul Martzen
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Wow. Yeah, if it came from his wife I guess that's about as good as
you can get. I'd love to see that article.

I wonder if Dvorak knew shorthand? That would help it make sense.
After all, in those days most folks got by with a pen or pencil, and
maybe a typing service.

Marcus

On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:32 AM, pbrun01 wrote:

> Ben Cohen sold me his complete collection of the newsletter
> called "Quick Strokes" that was put out quarterly (I think) by a
> group called Dvorak International (or something like that) from the
> mid-1970s to around 1990. It's pretty nerdy stuff, but I glanced
> through this stack of newsletters and there was an article about the
> death of August Dvorak in 1975 or 1976. In the article were some
> comments from his wife including the revelation that he never learned
> to touch-type. When I get home after work I'll scan the article and
> post it up. I too found this surprising.
> -Peter
>
> --- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, Paul Martzen <paul_martzen <at> ...>
> wrote:
>>
>> The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds
> very
>> fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
>> I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
>>
>> Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
> working on
>> the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
> with
>> other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
>> length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on
> the
>> home row.
>>
>> Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
>> unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
> coworker
>> or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
>> category.
>>
>> Paul Martzen
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-
> unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>