thasiet | 8 Jan 03:21 2009
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Stowaway universal bluetooth dvorak layout for Palm also work with Sierra?

The universal keyboard is the tiny one that doesn't have a dedicated
number row.

The Sierra is the full sized descendant of the thinkoutside stowaway
that folds in four parts.

Both use the same driver from now iGo

Can anyone confirm that the file in this forum to run the dvorak on
the universal keyboard on Palm OS also works with the Sierra?

Thanks!

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    pbrun01 | 28 Jan 21:38 2009
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    fun fact

    August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.

    Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
    developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
    type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).

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      Accessys@smart.net | 28 Jan 21:51 2009
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      Re: fun fact


      that is kinda funny,, wonder if sholes ever learned qwerty

      Bob

      On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, pbrun01 wrote:

      > August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.
      >
      > Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
      > developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
      > type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).
      >
      >

      -
      end
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government
      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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      safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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        Shane Duan | 28 Jan 23:37 2009
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        Re: fun fact

        I guess that makes sense, considering so many attached to QWERTY.
        This probably is what gave him the objective attitude.

        On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Accessys <at> smart.net <accessys <at> smart.net> wrote:
        >
        > that is kinda funny,, wonder if sholes ever learned qwerty
        >
        >
        > Bob
        >
        > On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, pbrun01 wrote:
        >
        >> August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.
        >>
        >> Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
        >> developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
        >> type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).
        >>
        >>
        >
        > -
        > end
        > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
        > safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob
        > .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys <at> smartnospam.net
        > .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers
        > .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right
        > *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
        > THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
        > privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
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        >

        --
        Shane
        http://www.shaneduan.com

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          Thomas Levine | 28 Jan 23:40 2009
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          Re: fun fact

          And Frank Gilbreth taught his kids to touch type before he learned how to.
          I'm not sure that he ended up learning, actually, but if he did, he couldn't
          have gotten so good as his kids.

          Tom!

          On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Shane Duan <shane.duan <at> gmail.com> wrote:

          > I guess that makes sense, considering so many attached to QWERTY.
          > This probably is what gave him the objective attitude.
          >
          >
          > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Accessys <at> smart.net<Accessys%40smart.net><
          > accessys <at> smart.net <accessys%40smart.net>> wrote:
          > >
          > > that is kinda funny,, wonder if sholes ever learned qwerty
          > >
          > >
          > > Bob
          > >
          > > On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, pbrun01 wrote:
          > >
          > >> August Dvorak himself never learned to touch-type. That's a fact.
          > >>
          > >> Kinda makes you wonder though. Here's a guy who was pretty devoted to
          > >> developing a better keyboard layout, and he never even learned how to
          > >> type on it (or on qwerty for that matter).
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > > -
          > > end
          > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government
          > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
          > > safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
          > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > > ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob
          > > .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys <at> smartnospam.net<accessys%40smartnospam.net>
          > > .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers
          > > .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right
          > >
          > *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
          > > THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
          > > privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com<altkeyboards%40eGroups.com>
          > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > altkeyboards-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo<altkeyboards-unsubscribe%40eGroups.comYahoo>!
          > Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Shane
          > http://www.shaneduan.com
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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            Paul Martzen | 29 Jan 04:36 2009
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            Re:fun fact

            The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds very
            fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
            I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.

            Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was working on
            the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements with
            other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
            length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on the
            home row.

            Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
            unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a coworker
            or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
            category.

            Paul Martzen

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              Marcus Brooks | 29 Jan 05:32 2009

              Re: Re:fun fact

              I'd really like to see where that claim came from. Even if you
              exclude the few pages that talk about keyboards, Dvorak et al's
              _Typewriting Behavior_ is all about fast, efficient typing. The idea
              of Dvorak typing with only two or four fingers is anathema.

              I would be less surprised to hear someone claim that Dvorak didn't
              type at all. He might well have written some or all of his text and
              correspondence longhand, or dictated it for transcription. But even
              if a secretary or casual observer said they never _saw_ him type,
              that's no proof he _couldn't_ type.

              Marcus
              Billions of people never saw me ride a bicycle. Some who did probably
              still don't believe it.

              On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:36 PM, Paul Martzen wrote:

              > The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds very
              > fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
              > I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
              >
              > Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
              > working on
              > the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
              > with
              > other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
              > length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on the
              > home row.
              >
              > Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
              > unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
              > coworker
              > or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
              > category.
              >
              > Paul Martzen
              >

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                pbrun01 | 29 Jan 17:32 2009
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                Re:fun fact

                Ben Cohen sold me his complete collection of the newsletter
                called "Quick Strokes" that was put out quarterly (I think) by a
                group called Dvorak International (or something like that) from the
                mid-1970s to around 1990. It's pretty nerdy stuff, but I glanced
                through this stack of newsletters and there was an article about the
                death of August Dvorak in 1975 or 1976. In the article were some
                comments from his wife including the revelation that he never learned
                to touch-type. When I get home after work I'll scan the article and
                post it up. I too found this surprising.
                -Peter

                --- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, Paul Martzen <paul_martzen <at> ...>
                wrote:
                >
                > The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds
                very
                > fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
                > I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
                >
                > Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
                working on
                > the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
                with
                > other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
                > length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on
                the
                > home row.
                >
                > Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
                > unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
                coworker
                > or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
                > category.
                >
                > Paul Martzen
                >

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                  Joey Mink | 29 Jan 18:03 2009
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                  Re: Re:fun fact

                  It would definitely be cool to read that article, Peter.

                  I guess I don't find it all that surprising that he wasn't a typist.
                  Being a non-typist could make him completely impartial to any
                  implementation (a necessary attitude in seeking the ultimate layout).

                  I'm sure it's documented somewhere (I've done little reading), but I
                  guess the context I would need to fully formulate an opinion is, what
                  got Dvorak into this line of research to begin with?

                  Joey

                  On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:32 AM, pbrun01 <pbrun01 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
                  > Ben Cohen sold me his complete collection of the newsletter
                  > called "Quick Strokes" that was put out quarterly (I think) by a
                  > group called Dvorak International (or something like that) from the
                  > mid-1970s to around 1990. It's pretty nerdy stuff, but I glanced
                  > through this stack of newsletters and there was an article about the
                  > death of August Dvorak in 1975 or 1976. In the article were some
                  > comments from his wife including the revelation that he never learned
                  > to touch-type. When I get home after work I'll scan the article and
                  > post it up. I too found this surprising.
                  > -Peter
                  >
                  > --- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, Paul Martzen <paul_martzen <at> ...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds
                  > very
                  >> fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
                  >> I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
                  >>
                  >> Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
                  > working on
                  >> the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
                  > with
                  >> other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
                  >> length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on
                  > the
                  >> home row.
                  >>
                  >> Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
                  >> unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
                  > coworker
                  >> or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
                  >> category.
                  >>
                  >> Paul Martzen
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

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                    Marcus Brooks | 29 Jan 21:03 2009

                    Re: Re:fun fact

                    Wow. Yeah, if it came from his wife I guess that's about as good as
                    you can get. I'd love to see that article.

                    I wonder if Dvorak knew shorthand? That would help it make sense.
                    After all, in those days most folks got by with a pen or pencil, and
                    maybe a typing service.

                    Marcus

                    On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:32 AM, pbrun01 wrote:

                    > Ben Cohen sold me his complete collection of the newsletter
                    > called "Quick Strokes" that was put out quarterly (I think) by a
                    > group called Dvorak International (or something like that) from the
                    > mid-1970s to around 1990. It's pretty nerdy stuff, but I glanced
                    > through this stack of newsletters and there was an article about the
                    > death of August Dvorak in 1975 or 1976. In the article were some
                    > comments from his wife including the revelation that he never learned
                    > to touch-type. When I get home after work I'll scan the article and
                    > post it up. I too found this surprising.
                    > -Peter
                    >
                    > --- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, Paul Martzen <paul_martzen <at> ...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> The statement that Dvorak did not ever learn to touch type sounds
                    > very
                    >> fishy to me. Do you have a source for this information?
                    >> I have never seen this reported in any of my readings about Dvorak.
                    >>
                    >> Frankly the idea seems almost impossible to me. While he was
                    > working on
                    >> the keyboard, how would he not type on it and compare the movements
                    > with
                    >> other keyboards? If you experiment with a Dvorak keyboard for any
                    >> length of time, you inevitably start touch typing, especially on
                    > the
                    >> home row.
                    >>
                    >> Maybe all professors used secretaries for typing at that time, but
                    >> unless I see this statement made by Dvorak himself, his wife, a
                    > coworker
                    >> or other reliable source, I will put this statement in the Troll
                    >> category.
                    >>
                    >> Paul Martzen
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-
                    > unsubscribe <at> eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
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                    >
                    >
                    >

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