Hello altkeyboarders :)

I've downloaded and installed the new euro keys Dvorak German app in
the files section (and it appears this is the *only* place online the
file still exists since http://eurokeys.steveszone.com/ doesn't seem
to exist anymore). (application/zip nekDE-NT-2000-XP.zip). It
appeared to install successfully but when I go to languages -->
details --> add --> keyboard layout/IME there is nothing in the
dropdown menu that appears to be "new euro" or a new Dvorak or a new
German entry.

Anyone know what keyboard layout *name* I should be looking for? The
install appeared successful and I have the readme and bitmap - I just
cannot find the actual layout in the dropdown menu to turn on. Very
frustrating!

I'm running XP home, service pack 2 (and currently type in US Dvorak
but am learning German and typing is driving me completely nuts!)

Thank you for any info! I feel like I must be missing something very
very obvious here..... :P

earthmoon

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If I remember correctly, the Dvorak French layout was under the language
"Dvorak-fr". You could also just install GNU/Linux, where it's much easier
to install and configure keyboard layouts. Hmm...I actually don't use Dvorak
French much even though I've been typing in French more. Maybe you won't use
Dvorak German either. Or maybe you will. Sorry for the entirely useless
response

Thomas Levine

On Dec 3, 2007 1:21 AM, positiveparenter <earthmoon <at> c-3.nu> wrote:

> Hello altkeyboarders :)
>
> I've downloaded and installed the new euro keys Dvorak German app in
> the files section (and it appears this is the *only* place online the
> file still exists since http://eurokeys.steveszone.com/ doesn't seem
> to exist anymore). (application/zip nekDE-NT-2000-XP.zip). It
> appeared to install successfully but when I go to languages -->
> details --> add --> keyboard layout/IME there is nothing in the
> dropdown menu that appears to be "new euro" or a new Dvorak or a new
> German entry.
>
> Anyone know what keyboard layout *name* I should be looking for? The
> install appeared successful and I have the readme and bitmap - I just
> cannot find the actual layout in the dropdown menu to turn on. Very
> frustrating!
>
> I'm running XP home, service pack 2 (and currently type in US Dvorak
> but am learning German and typing is driving me completely nuts!)
>
> Thank you for any info! I feel like I must be missing something very
> very obvious here..... :P
>
> earthmoon
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Thomas Levine wrote:
> If I remember correctly, the Dvorak French layout was under the language
> "Dvorak-fr".

Hmmm. (checks) Nope. When I install the UK new euro keys it shows up
in the drop down no problem (New Euro Keys UK). Alas! Woe! Umlauts
are a PITA.

> You could also just install GNU/Linux, where it's much easier
> to install and configure keyboard layouts.

Yeah, I use Ubuntu whenever I can (I have to run specialized mapping
software in windows so I have to keep it around) because it's so much
more sensible about, well, everything.

But along those lines I downloaded the Microsoft keyboard layout creator
(and installed .NET 2x) and modified my usual Dvorak and tried to create
the installer....only to be hit with a string of errors that keep the
thing from working. There is clearly a voodoo curse on me having
umlauts and esstset.

Any tips on the MSKL?

> Hmm...I actually don't use Dvorak
> French much even though I've been typing in French more. Maybe you won't use
> Dvorak German either. Or maybe you will. Sorry for the entirely useless
> response
>

Ah - sympathy is never useless :) I know I'll be typing in German for
my lessons, so at least I know all this effort is worth it!

em

> Thomas Levine
>

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En/na earthmoon ha escrit:

> But along those lines I downloaded the Microsoft keyboard layout creator
> (and installed .NET 2x) and modified my usual Dvorak and tried to create
> the installer....only to be hit with a string of errors that keep the
> thing from working. There is clearly a voodoo curse on me having
> umlauts and esstset.
>
> Any tips on the MSKL?

No tip. I can only say that I use MSKL without problems here on Windows
2000.

An alternative is to use an Authotkey script.

See the NEO-Tastatur project.

This projects offers two possibilities: a driver made with MKSL and a
script for Autohotkey.
See:
http://www.eigenheimstrasse.de:8668/space/Computerecke/NEO-Tastaturlayout
https://neo.eigenheimstrasse.de/svn/windows/XP/autohotkey/

The advantage of the Autohotkey script is that is is just a text file. See:
https://neo.eigenheimstrasse.de/svn/windows/XP/autohotkey/neo20-all-in-one.ahk

You can change it very easily run it without having adminitrative
rights. Very handy when you are not at your own computer.

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I did finally find a solution. MSKL never did work for me, but a
freeware program called "Keyboard Layout Manager 2000" did just fine!

http://www.klm32.com/Download.html

Hope this helps someone else out :)

em

Marco Amans wrote:
> En/na earthmoon ha escrit:
>
>
>> But along those lines I downloaded the Microsoft keyboard layout creator
>> (and installed .NET 2x) and modified my usual Dvorak and tried to create
>> the installer....only to be hit with a string of errors that keep the
>> thing from working. There is clearly a voodoo curse on me having
>> umlauts and esstset.
>>
>> Any tips on the MSKL?
>>
>
> No tip. I can only say that I use MSKL without problems here on Windows
> 2000.
>
> An alternative is to use an Authotkey script.
>
> See the NEO-Tastatur project.
>
> This projects offers two possibilities: a driver made with MKSL and a
> script for Autohotkey.
> See:
> http://www.eigenheimstrasse.de:8668/space/Computerecke/NEO-Tastaturlayout
> https://neo.eigenheimstrasse.de/svn/windows/XP/autohotkey/
>
> The advantage of the Autohotkey script is that is is just a text file. See:
> https://neo.eigenheimstrasse.de/svn/windows/XP/autohotkey/neo20-all-in-one.ahk
>
> You can change it very easily run it without having adminitrative
> rights. Very handy when you are not at your own computer.
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards <at> eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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A little bit off-topic but might provoke relevant ideas: what about
attempts to create a non-shorthand handwriting system to near the speed
of speech, such as Shavian & Quickscript?

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Hi Dragomir,

I believe this attempts are exactly the same to handwriting, as the Dvorak
is to touch typing... they are great, would make everybody lifes better,
increase productivity and all that stuff we are all tired of knowing here,
but everyone else doesn't seems to care... People want what is easy, not
what is better... with Esperanto (the language created to be universal but
that will never be) happened the same thing... not saying it is an "ergo"
(or any other word that i don't have in my poor english vocabulary)
language, or a productivity focused language, but it was also created to
make life better, but people would have a lot of work to learn a new
language that isn't fashion... Madonna made americans (and not only
americans) run to learn Hebrew when she made publicity about studying it, so
maybe thats the tip... maybe we need to make a wearable fashion Dvorak
keyboard, find a big artist to wear it and stuff like that for it to be
really used,... at least, it seems that the only way for the people to give
voice to alternative systems, is not focusing on what it have better, but
focusing on how it wears good... :)

Greetings from the Wood,

Felipe Barros

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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I love the idea of making the shirt! That alone would increase awareness
of it. I'll try designing one the next time I'm bored. Oh, or maybe I'll
just get one of the DVZine shirts.

Thomas Levine

On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 12:36 -0300, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?
Felipe_Barros_Corr=EAa_de_Oliv?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?eira _ wrote:
> Hi Dragomir,
>
> I believe this attempts are exactly the same to handwriting, as the
> Dvorak
> is to touch typing... they are great, would make everybody lifes
> better,
> increase productivity and all that stuff we are all tired of knowing
> here,
> but everyone else doesn't seems to care... People want what is easy,
> not
> what is better... with Esperanto (the language created to be universal
> but
> that will never be) happened the same thing... not saying it is an
> "ergo"
> (or any other word that i don't have in my poor english vocabulary)
> language, or a productivity focused language, but it was also created
> to
> make life better, but people would have a lot of work to learn a new
> language that isn't fashion... Madonna made americans (and not only
> americans) run to learn Hebrew when she made publicity about studying
> it, so
> maybe thats the tip... maybe we need to make a wearable fashion Dvorak
> keyboard, find a big artist to wear it and stuff like that for it to
> be
> really used,... at least, it seems that the only way for the people to
> give
> voice to alternative systems, is not focusing on what it have better,
> but
> focusing on how it wears good... :)
>
> Greetings from the Wood,
>
> Felipe Barros
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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A lot about what you say ignited my project.
It seems even the best keyboard setups and alternative keyboards never
really catch on. a small market share, a "medical" approach to
ergonomics and the laziness of people means these products lack the
sexiness of gaming peripherals. What I am interested in is designing a
capable product which will be as desirable as other high end gadgets.

As far as handwriting methods are concerned - their relatively slow
speed when compared to other methods (such as chord keyboards) is a
problem. Even Quikwrite is about half as fast as QWERTY - ~65 WPM
compared to ~35 based on some studies.

Chording keyboard is the second choice sporting an average speed of
little less than 50 WPM by the average user.

Smart virtual keyboards also have a high speed average, but suffer
from an extremely high error ratio.

Did anyone here have any experience with chording keyboards or
Quikwrite? I am looking for people to answer some questions. I didn't
find these keyboards to try them myself as of yet.

Thanks for the feedback!

--- In altkeyboards <at> yahoogroups.com, "Felipe Barros Corr�a de
Oliveira" <felipeahura <at> ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dragomir,
>
> I believe this attempts are exactly the same to handwriting, as the
Dvorak
> is to touch typing... they are great, would make everybody lifes better,
> increase productivity and all that stuff we are all tired of knowing
here,
> but everyone else doesn't seems to care... People want what is easy, not
> what is better... with Esperanto (the language created to be
universal but
> that will never be) happened the same thing... not saying it is an
"ergo"
> (or any other word that i don't have in my poor english vocabulary)
> language, or a productivity focused language, but it was also created to
> make life better, but people would have a lot of work to learn a new
> language that isn't fashion... Madonna made americans (and not only
> americans) run to learn Hebrew when she made publicity about
studying it, so
> maybe thats the tip... maybe we need to make a wearable fashion Dvorak
> keyboard, find a big artist to wear it and stuff like that for it to be
> really used,... at least, it seems that the only way for the people
to give
> voice to alternative systems, is not focusing on what it have
better, but
> focusing on how it wears good... :)
>
> Greetings from the Wood,
>
> Felipe Barros
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Hi Eyeal M.,

If i can help you, i would love to! I don't know why, but I am so much
addicted to Languages, Writing, Typing and specially, to Input Devices! It's
one of the things i feel more pleasure to know about, to view different
stuff, to try out different things, thats why this list is the only one that
comes directly to my Inbox, no filtering... i love keyboards, mices, gaming
peripherals!! REALLY VRY MUCH! If i'm at the Cinema, reading legends, my
hands are typing them... not everything and not all the time... O_O hehehe
(I hope there isn't a Psychiatrist around the hood) :D Everyday i expect to
see a new article about Input Devices at Extremetech, just to see it.. and
if i had a lot of money (not the case) i would have a collection of
peripherals that one day would probably make part of a museum :) So, i'm not
an expert, but i love it all... and if i can help you out, just for the
participation on something dealing with this, just tell me (Unfortunately, i
can't pick up coffee for you :/ hehehe)... thats it...

Sincerely,

Felipe Barros

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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