Dead Project?

Is this project dead? 

--

-- 
J.P. Cummins
jpcummins <at> gmail.com

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

Just refer to the last "Is this project dead??" thread 

http://www.y-windows.org/pipermail/y-devel/2004-September/001736.html

Re: Dead Project?

Am Samstag, den 01.01.2005, 15:49 -0600 schrieb J.P. Cummins:
> Is this project dead? 

I think so.

regards
Sebastian

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

On Sunday 02 January 2005 00:24, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> Just refer to the last "Is this project dead??" thread 

> http://www.y-windows.org/pipermail/y-devel/2004-September/001736.html

I hope the developers would at least say something about their progress.  Once 
a month, maybe?

It is much possible that they know all the best ideas and want no input or 
discussion, and it is also possible that they want to surprise us.  Finally, 
it is possible that once they have something ready, swarms of beta-testers 
will emerge out of nowhere to help them after a single announcement.

It is also possible that they succeed to implement the best of all worlds, so 
there is no need for a roadmap or alternatives, because they will do it all.

People know the disadvantages of hype and more hype, but this seems like the 
exact opposite, and has its disadvantages too.

Where were the arch access instructions again?

-Kimmo S.

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 09:02:49PM +0200, Kimmo Sundqvist wrote:
> On Sunday 02 January 2005 00:24, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> > Just refer to the last "Is this project dead??" thread 
> 
> > http://www.y-windows.org/pipermail/y-devel/2004-September/001736.html
> 
> I hope the developers would at least say something about their progress.  Once 
> a month, maybe?

There hasn't been any in the past month because we've all been doing
other things. I don't see why you expect anything different. Nor is
your demand for progress reports appropriate or even good manners; you
are not middle-management for any of us.

> It is much possible that they know all the best ideas and want no input or 
> discussion, and it is also possible that they want to surprise us.  Finally, 
> it is possible that once they have something ready, swarms of beta-testers 
> will emerge out of nowhere to help them after a single announcement.

All of that stuff is grossly premature.

> Where were the arch access instructions again?

Read the manual.

--

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
 `. `'                          |
   `-             -><-          |

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

As much as it pains me to reply to this, and as much as none of us has much 
right to demand anything... I must say that I have one simple criticism of 
the project:  The level of experience and maturity needed to contribute is 
fairly high.

Of course, it's not Andrew Suffield's job to hand-hold people through their 
own learning curve, but perhaps someone out there can volunteer for that 
position, so that the interested (but green) parties can help each other.

On y-windows.org you can see the road map mentioning features and planned 
releases, perhaps someone can share how we are doing on achieving version 
0.3 features?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Suffield" <asuffield <at> debian.org>
To: <y-devel <at> y-windows.org>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Y-devel] Quick question... Is this project dead?!

On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 09:02:49PM +0200, Kimmo Sundqvist wrote:
> On Sunday 02 January 2005 00:24, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> > Just refer to the last "Is this project dead??" thread 
>
> > http://www.y-windows.org/pipermail/y-devel/2004-September/001736.html
>
> I hope the developers would at least say something about their progress. 
> Once
> a month, maybe?

There hasn't been any in the past month because we've all been doing
other things. I don't see why you expect anything different. Nor is
your demand for progress reports appropriate or even good manners; you
are not middle-management for any of us.

> It is much possible that they know all the best ideas and want no input or
> discussion, and it is also possible that they want to surprise us. 
> Finally,
> it is possible that once they have something ready, swarms of beta-testers
> will emerge out of nowhere to help them after a single announcement.

All of that stuff is grossly premature.

> Where were the arch access instructions again?

Read the manual.

--

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
 `. `'                          |
   `-             -><-          |

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

I wouldn't call that a criticism of the project as much as just a
statement of fact.  Designing and coding something like Y-windows and
doing it right is high-end stuff, it's not really territory for
someone who isn't already intimately familiar with these kinds of
things.

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:13:00 -0400, Jacob O'Reilly <jacob <at> ivorytower.ca> wrote:
> As much as it pains me to reply to this, and as much as none of us has much
> right to demand anything... I must say that I have one simple criticism of
> the project:  The level of experience and maturity needed to contribute is
> fairly high.
> 
> Of course, it's not Andrew Suffield's job to hand-hold people through their
> own learning curve, but perhaps someone out there can volunteer for that
> position, so that the interested (but green) parties can help each other.
> 
> On y-windows.org you can see the road map mentioning features and planned
> releases, perhaps someone can share how we are doing on achieving version
> 0.3 features?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Suffield" <asuffield <at> debian.org>
> To: <y-devel <at> y-windows.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Y-devel] Quick question... Is this project dead?!
> 
> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 09:02:49PM +0200, Kimmo Sundqvist wrote:
> > On Sunday 02 January 2005 00:24, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> > > Just refer to the last "Is this project dead??" thread 
> >
> > > http://www.y-windows.org/pipermail/y-devel/2004-September/001736.html
> >
> > I hope the developers would at least say something about their progress.
> > Once
> > a month, maybe?
> 
> There hasn't been any in the past month because we've all been doing
> other things. I don't see why you expect anything different. Nor is
> your demand for progress reports appropriate or even good manners; you
> are not middle-management for any of us.
> 
> > It is much possible that they know all the best ideas and want no input or
> > discussion, and it is also possible that they want to surprise us.
> > Finally,
> > it is possible that once they have something ready, swarms of beta-testers
> > will emerge out of nowhere to help them after a single announcement.
> 
> All of that stuff is grossly premature.
> 
> > Where were the arch access instructions again?
> 
> Read the manual.
> 
> --
>   .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
>  : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
>  `. `'                          |
>    `-             -><-          |
> 
>

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

Brandon Black wrote:

>it's not really territory for someone who isn't already intimately familiar with these kinds of things.
>
Hmm well but some fresh minds can often give pretty good ideas, I think. 
And development of Y was always a little bit (pleas dont' flame me  ) 
closed.

cam.

Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

Brandon,
While I agree with you, I guess I wasn't very clear - it's not about the 
skill level, or the domain knowledge, it's more about the lack of 
communication, and that those who contribute must do so despite the team, 
not with them.
That's my observation, anyhow.  I do not see much of what goes on besides 
the mailing list, so perhaps I'm off-base, however that I don't see is 
somewhat telling in itself.  (I do read all messages to this list.)

I certainly cannot complain (and I'm not,) as I've not been at all useful to 
the project.  I'll jump on once I notice the protocol changes are finished. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Black" <blblack <at> gmail.com>
To: <y-devel <at> y-windows.org>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Y-devel] Quick question... Is this project dead?!

>I wouldn't call that a criticism of the project as much as just a
> statement of fact.  Designing and coding something like Y-windows and
> doing it right is high-end stuff, it's not really territory for
> someone who isn't already intimately familiar with these kinds of
> things.
>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:13:00 -0400, Jacob O'Reilly <jacob <at> ivorytower.ca> 
> wrote:
>> As much as it pains me to reply to this, and as much as none of us has 
>> much
>> right to demand anything... I must say that I have one simple criticism 
>> of
>> the project:  The level of experience and maturity needed to contribute 
>> is
>> fairly high.
>>
>> Of course, it's not Andrew Suffield's job to hand-hold people through 
>> their
>> own learning curve, but perhaps someone out there can volunteer for that
>> position, so that the interested (but green) parties can help each other.
>>
>> On y-windows.org you can see the road map mentioning features and planned
>> releases, perhaps someone can share how we are doing on achieving version
>> 0.3 features?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andrew Suffield" <asuffield <at> debian.org>
>> To: <y-devel <at> y-windows.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Y-devel] Quick question... Is this project dead?!
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 09:02:49PM +0200, Kimmo Sundqvist wrote:
>> > On Sunday 02 January 2005 00:24, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
>> > > Just refer to the last "Is this project dead??" thread 
>> >
>> > > http://www.y-windows.org/pipermail/y-devel/2004-September/001736.html
>> >
>> > I hope the developers would at least say something about their 
>> > progress.
>> > Once
>> > a month, maybe?
>>
>> There hasn't been any in the past month because we've all been doing
>> other things. I don't see why you expect anything different. Nor is
>> your demand for progress reports appropriate or even good manners; you
>> are not middle-management for any of us.
>>
>> > It is much possible that they know all the best ideas and want no input 
>> > or
>> > discussion, and it is also possible that they want to surprise us.
>> > Finally,
>> > it is possible that once they have something ready, swarms of 
>> > beta-testers
>> > will emerge out of nowhere to help them after a single announcement.
>>
>> All of that stuff is grossly premature.
>>
>> > Where were the arch access instructions again?
>>
>> Read the manual.
>>
>> --
>>   .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
>>  : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
>>  `. `'                          |
>>    `-             -><-          |
>>
>>
>