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Peter Dennis Bartok | 1 Jul 2004 03:38

Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

This was also posted on mono-list and mono-devel list. 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Miguel de Icaza" <miguel <at> novell.com>
To: <mono-list <at> ximian.com>; <mono-devel-list <at> ximian.com>
Date: Wednesday, 30 June, 2004 16:13
Subject: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

Hello,

   A couple of weeks ago, we decided to rewrite our
System.Windows.Forms implementation.  Today's implementation suffered
from various problems:

* Debugging with Wine was extremely hard, and Wine was 
  a moving target, internals change from release to release.

* Wine/GDI+ interactions were not efficient.

* Too many cooks contributed to the core, so it was
  hard to maintain.
    So a couple of weeks ago we decided to take a step back and
redesign it, as you remember one of the reasons for using Wine is that
it would allow third-party components to P/Invoke and to hook up to
WndProc, this is sadly required for most third-party commercial
controls and for advanced applications like WebMatrix to run.

    Our new implementation takes a different approach, it will be
completely managed and will not use Wine, this should help the
portability to new operating systems, and should help on the debugging
(Continue reading)

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PFJ | 1 Jul 2004 10:37
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Re: Winforms and SuSE 9.1

Hi,

> The simplest winforms program I tried, is only an empty window. But I got the 
> same result for every winforms program, it died.
> 
> For example the output of the following command:
> 
> mono -v swf-buttons.exe

The winforms namespace isn't yet up and running and there are problems
with putting text on labels or buttons, but an empty window should work
- it certainly does under FC 2.

Can you generate a messagebox without a problem?

The following works here under FC2

using System;
using System.Windows.Forms;

class Welcome
{
  static void Main(string [] args)
  {
     MessageBox.Show("Welcome\nto\nC# from\nXimian");
  }
}

mcs Welcome.cs -r System.Windows.Forms
(Continue reading)

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PFJ | 1 Jul 2004 10:41
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Re: Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

Hi,

>     This is a rewrite from scratch to support the new design, and we
> hope to have something in the next couple of weeks that will go into
> the Mono CVS repository.

This is excellent news. Anything you need a hand with?

TTFN

Paul
--

-- 
"If I face my God tomorrow, I can tell Him I am innocent.
I've never harmed anyone. I have cheated no one. 
I have deceived no one. I have hurt no one. 
Except myself. And that He will forgive me." - Hans Holzel
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Diego Iastrubni | 1 Jul 2004 13:49
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Re: Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

בThursday 01 July 2004 01:38, נכתב על ידי Peter Dennis Bartok:
>     This is a rewrite from scratch to support the new design, and we
> hope to have something in the next couple of weeks that will go into
> the Mono CVS repository.
>
>     The core is being worked on by Peter Bartok, and once the core is
> ready familiar faces: Jackson, Jordi and Ravindra will join the effort
> to implement the missing functionality, and we hope that interested
> developers will join this effort.

Will it be build on native code? gtk#/qt# as it was planned in the early 
stages? Can you give more details...?

--

-- 

diego, kde-il translation team

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
Free MS-Office replacement for most platforms
http://www.openoffice.org/
_______________________________________________
Mono-winforms-list maillist  -  Mono-winforms-list <at> lists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-winforms-list
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Peter Dennis Bartok | 1 Jul 2004 16:11

Re: Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

> Will it be build on native code? gtk#/qt# as it was planned in the early
stages? Can you give more details...?
As the message said, it will be fully managed code, including all controls.

Peter

_______________________________________________
Mono-winforms-list maillist  -  Mono-winforms-list <at> lists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-winforms-list
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Bernd Lachner | 1 Jul 2004 19:19
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Re: Winforms and SuSE 9.1

> The winforms namespace isn't yet up and running and there are problems
> with putting text on labels or buttons, but an empty window should work
>- it certainly does under FC 2.

Yes I know winforms aren't officially a part of mono 1.0 but I thought 
something should work and I only want to test it.

> Can you generate a messagebox without a problem?

No I can't. I just tried it out and the same error I described in my last 
posting occurs.
_______________________________________________
Mono-winforms-list maillist  -  Mono-winforms-list <at> lists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-winforms-list
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Steven Edwards | 1 Jul 2004 20:52
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Re: Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

Hi,

I have a few quick questions.

--- Peter Dennis Bartok <peter <at> novonyx.com> wrote:
> This was also posted on mono-list and mono-devel list. 

<snip>

>     To support WndProc, this new version uses the most commony used
> WndProc events internally so applications that depend on this works,
> and we will have an optional plugin that would use WineLib to host
> advanced functionality. 

<snip>

Rather than spending a whole lot of time rewritting things wouldnt it
be better to help the Wine project get stable and move to the 1.0 goal?
There is a roadmap and TODO on Winehq of things that are needed for
1.0. 

Also I do development for the ReactOS platform. How is this going to
effect Mono and System.Windows.Forms running on Windows and ReactOS?

Thanks
Steven

		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
(Continue reading)

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Paul | 1 Jul 2004 23:47
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Re: Re: Winforms and SuSE 9.1

Hi,

> > The winforms namespace isn't yet up and running and there are problems
> > with putting text on labels or buttons, but an empty window should work
> >- it certainly does under FC 2.
> 
> Yes I know winforms aren't officially a part of mono 1.0 but I thought 
> something should work and I only want to test it.

I think the problem really more is down to trying to hit the moving
target with Wine rather than a native implementation.

> > Can you generate a messagebox without a problem?
> 
> No I can't. I just tried it out and the same error I described in my last 
> posting occurs.

That is wierd. Sounds like there is something wrong with the SuSE
version - certainly worked under FC2

TTFN

Paul
--

-- 
"If I face my God tomorrow, I can tell Him I am innocent.
I've never harmed anyone. I have cheated no one. 
I have deceived no one. I have hurt no one. 
Except myself. And that He will forgive me." - Hans Holzel
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Peter Dennis Bartok | 2 Jul 2004 04:35

Re: Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

>Rather than spending a whole lot of time rewritting things wouldnt it
>be better to help the Wine project get stable and move to the 1.0 goal?
>There is a roadmap and TODO on Winehq of things that are needed for
>1.0.
No, it wouldn't. Even if Wine already was 1.0 we still would not have the
portability we're trying to get (ie. run on Solaris Sparc, Mac OS, etc) and
debugging would still be almost impossible (Wine does funky stuff with
register for thread storage, special stuff would be required to setup
Mono-created threads before they'd be able to call Wine functions, etc).
Also, there doesn't seem to be much interest from the Wine community to do
anything that helps using Wine with SWF/Mono. We've had to resort to some
quite complicated mechanisms to even be able to use Wine as a shared,
runtime attached library, after Alexandre rejected a patch that only touched
six lines of existing Wine code and added a new library to Wine, to allow
straightforward use of Wine as a library. Having to take instead the
complicated route it now means that many people are having problems getting
SWF to run at all, with due to strict path dependencies.
Another problem was that we had to spend way too much time tracking what
changed from one Wine version to the next. For example from April to May,
the wine_get_unix_file_name() function arguments were changed (I'm not even
asking why it was changed instead of introducing a new function with
different arguments and leaving the old one for those people who might use
it). Since I can't require always the latest Wine version, I have to come up
with code figuring out what Wine version might be running, and write code to
make version dependent Wine calls. I'd rather spend that time improving SWF.

Notice how people complain on this mailing that they're having problems
getting even basic stuff going? The SWF code works, it's the interaction
with Wine that's mostly causing the problems. Again, as I said, it will
become much easier for the regular user once the Wine dependency is removed
(Continue reading)

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Steven Edwards | 2 Jul 2004 04:57
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Re: [Mono-winforms-list] Fw: [Mono-list] System.Windows.Forms plans.

Hello Peter,

I am not trying to be rude but...

--- Peter Dennis Bartok <peter <at> novonyx.com> wrote:
> >Rather than spending a whole lot of time rewritting things wouldnt
> it
> >be better to help the Wine project get stable and move to the 1.0
> goal?
> >There is a roadmap and TODO on Winehq of things that are needed for
> >1.0.
> No, it wouldn't. Even if Wine already was 1.0 we still would not have
> the
> portability we're trying to get (ie. run on Solaris Sparc, Mac OS,
> etc) and

Well Winelib does run on PPC and the port to Sparc is mostly done. 99%
of Wine even compiles on Alpha here for me. See

http://www.winehq.com/site/status_porting

> debugging would still be almost impossible (Wine does funky stuff
> with
> register for thread storage, special stuff would be required to setup
> Mono-created threads before they'd be able to call Wine functions,
> etc).
> Also, there doesn't seem to be much interest from the Wine community
> to do
> anything that helps using Wine with SWF/Mono. We've had to resort to
> some
(Continue reading)

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