Debarshi Ray | 1 Oct 2009 01:41
Picon
Gravatar

Zooming controls: slider or combobox?

I was looking at the various "zooming controls" used in GNOME programs
to decide what to use in a program. Apart from the simple '+' and '-'
controls I found atleast two others -- F-Spot's slider, and
Evince/Epiphany's GtkComboBox. Is there a preference in favour of the
slider or the combobox?

Thanks,
Debarshi
--

-- 
One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an
imaginary part.
    -- Andrew Koenig
Vadim Peretokin | 1 Oct 2009 01:59
Picon

Re: Zooming controls: slider or combobox?

The ComboBoxEntry seems to just work well for pre-defined values, that's why Epiphany is using them for fonts. I'd say a slider is more applicable in the general case...

_______________________________________________
Usability mailing list
Usability <at> gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Karoliina Salminen | 1 Oct 2009 08:36
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Requesting a right-click root menu for GNOME 3

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Anzan Hoshin Roshi
<anzanhoshinroshi <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would just like to bring this forward regarding GNOME's interface and the
> looming GNOME 3 and its "Shell".
>
> I use GNOME on my main production box, Fluxbox on the netbook and laptops I
> have. Generally, we use Fluxbox at the monastery but I'm trying to stay in
> touch with what is going on for users (so I can answer questions
> occasionally on Ubuntu Forum) so am now writing this in GNOME. I run
> Metacity rather than Compiz. I have one panel, not expanded, and
> auto-hidden. I use it mainly to view the calendar or to dig down for
> something.  I've customized keybindings for switching workspaces to ALT +
> number keys because CTL+ALT and arrowing back and forth through each is just
> too slow. After much consideration regarding Mono, I've started using Do
> instead of the ALT+F2 run dialogue.
>
> The "Shell" for GNOME 3 and it's overlay would be absolutely dreadful for
> me, and I think for some if not most users. I simply won't do the navigation
> of the cursor around and pointing and clicking, and having this huge menu
> thing taking over the desktop would make getting anything done more awkward
> than I can justify.
>
> So here's the gist, the point, the nub:
>
> How about allowing users to enable a right-click configurable menu on the
> root window so that those like me can still use GNOME?  I would prefer it to
> be configured using flat text but XML would be all right.
>
> Tabbing windows as in Fluxbox would be great as well, but the most important
> thing for me would be being able to bypass the "Shell" overlay.

Hi,

Can you explain how is this power user feature is related to usability?
You apparently are not a representative of normal users at all.
Normal users don't know key shortcuts and right click configurable
this and that,
they want a plain, simple, slick and cool user interface they can click, pan,
maybe zoom, etc. These right click main menu (like it appeared
originally already
on fvwm when I was a kid) schemes are so 80s to be sincere.

It is a good idea to support power user features, but design should never be
built around the power user features because that is not usability for
normal users,
that is fast way to work for very advanced users, maybe 0.01% of the users.

Best Regards,
Karoliina Salminen
Anzan Hoshin Roshi | 1 Oct 2009 12:50
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Requesting a right-click root menu for GNOME 3




Hi,

Hello Karoliina,

Can you explain how is this power user feature is related to usability?
You apparently are not a representative of normal users at all.
Normal users don't know key shortcuts and right click configurable
this and that,
they want a plain, simple, slick and cool user interface they can click, pan,
maybe zoom, etc. These right click main menu (like it appeared
originally already
on fvwm when I was a kid) schemes are so 80s to be sincere.

It is a good idea to support power user features, but design should never be
built around the power user features because that is not usability for
normal users,
that is fast way to work for very advanced users, maybe 0.01% of the users.

Best Regards,
Karoliina Salminen

I apologize. Stormy Peters suggested this list to me for this topic. Can you suggest another?


Anzan Hoshin
http://wwzc.org
_______________________________________________
Usability mailing list
Usability <at> gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Stormy Peters | 1 Oct 2009 16:39
Picon

Re: Requesting a right-click root menu for GNOME 3

Usability is not just about making things easy for novice users. It's about making an intuitive interface for people - all people.

My understanding is that many of the difficulties arise in the trade offs between the types of users.

Stormy

On Sep 30, 2009 11:36 PM, "Karoliina Salminen" <karoliina.t.salminen <at> gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Anzan Hoshin Roshi <anzanhoshinroshi <at> gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > >...

Hi,

Can you explain how is this power user feature is related to usability?
You apparently are not a representative of normal users at all.
Normal users don't know key shortcuts and right click configurable
this and that,
they want a plain, simple, slick and cool user interface they can click, pan,
maybe zoom, etc. These right click main menu (like it appeared
originally already
on fvwm when I was a kid) schemes are so 80s to be sincere.

It is a good idea to support power user features, but design should never be
built around the power user features because that is not usability for
normal users,
that is fast way to work for very advanced users, maybe 0.01% of the users.

Best Regards,
Karoliina Salminen

_______________________________________________ Usability mailing list Usability <at> gnome.org http://ma...

_______________________________________________
Usability mailing list
Usability <at> gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Shaun McCance | 1 Oct 2009 17:34
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Ideas for Usability Hackfest

On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 17:36 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote:
> A few weeks ago I was asked to help with planning a GNOME Usability
> hackfest.  There is a lot of interest in having the GNOME Foundation
> be more involved doing usability studies and testing.
> 
> I have had some discussion with people involved with GNOME Usability
> and the following ideas came up as being interesting.  I think a
> hackfest that runs from 3-5 days could be long enough to make progress
> in perhaps a few different areas.  For example:

> - Next revision of the GNOME HIG
> 
>    The HIG is still in draft form, and does not discuss newer
>    technologies such as clutter at all.  The HIG needs some real
>    attention to ensure it continues to be helpful with GNOME 3.0.

If there's a HIG planning session, I'd like to join in.

--
Shaun
Brad Taylor | 1 Oct 2009 18:04
Gravatar

Re: Ideas for Usability Hackfest

On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 10:34 -0500, Shaun McCance wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 17:36 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote:
> > A few weeks ago I was asked to help with planning a GNOME Usability
> > hackfest.  There is a lot of interest in having the GNOME Foundation
> > be more involved doing usability studies and testing.
> > 
> > I have had some discussion with people involved with GNOME Usability
> > and the following ideas came up as being interesting.  I think a
> > hackfest that runs from 3-5 days could be long enough to make progress
> > in perhaps a few different areas.  For example:
> 
> > - Next revision of the GNOME HIG
> > 
> >    The HIG is still in draft form, and does not discuss newer
> >    technologies such as clutter at all.  The HIG needs some real
> >    attention to ensure it continues to be helpful with GNOME 3.0.
> 
> If there's a HIG planning session, I'd like to join in.

Count me in also

-Brad
Calum Benson | 1 Oct 2009 18:32
Picon

Re: Ideas for Usability Hackfest


On 28 Sep 2009, at 23:36, Brian Cameron wrote:

> - Next revision of the GNOME HIG
>
>  The HIG is still in draft form, and does not discuss newer
>  technologies such as clutter at all.  The HIG needs some real
>  attention to ensure it continues to be helpful with GNOME 3.0.

A few of us got chatting off-list this week about possible direction  
here, attached is the summary so far (thanks to Shane Coughlan)...  
thoughts welcome.

=== Stuff people talked about ===

The reference document in the past was "The GNOME HIG" and it started  
out
well.  The wiki version was very useful.

However, the HIG as it stands is a massive confabulation of style,  
interaction, and experience guidelines that's been brought together in  
so much detail nobody cares to read it any more. It contains:

* Spacing guidelines
* Icon guidelines
* Dialog layout
* Language guidelines
* Shortcut key conventions
* Menu item conventions
* Input interaction
* Detailed information on the placement,
   usage and application of each widget
* and much much more...

It's become a book, in fact it's even called the HIG-book.

We need to think about short documents which engineers actually use;  
guidelines which are actual guidelines and a book which is just a  
book, not a book of guidelines.

The way forward may be to create two documents.

(1) Style guidelines that contain a gallery of window layouts and  
their relevant applications, padding/spacing and framing, alignments,  
icon guidelines and generally anything which is "GNOME Style  
Guidelines" worthy. This document becomes the main Bible of UI design  
for GNOME applications. It has an overview of simple things that UI  
designers can do to ensure a consistent look and feel with GNOME.

A pattern library would be ideal, as I understand it what you'd be  
expecting here is a library of common widget arrangements matched with  
a task and applicability, for instance; 'My application needs to  
browse a series of folders to populate the main view' - Use a sidebar,  
this is how ... dum de dum ... The problem with these kinds of  
libraries is browsability, a semantic data store could work in the  
following way;

    sidebar app         tabbed app
    /     \             /    /\
   /       \           /    /  \
nautilus  multiple docs    /  web browser
                     \    /
                      \  /
                       \/
                       gedit

This would allow a developer to think "x app is similar to mine in  
this respect", and then find all of the patterns related to that app.

Here are some examples of the pattern method:

<http://www.welie.com/patterns/>
<http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns>
<http://www.uie.com/articles/elements_of_a_design_pattern/>

Ultimately what might suit GNOME best would be a two-tier system -- an  
immutable set of core patterns/guidelines that are provided by the HIG  
team up front and considered stable, and an unstable or pending set  
that's open to contributions from GNOME users/developers (but reviewed  
by usability folks of course), which might be tweaked, replaced, or  
moved into the stable set over time.

An ancillary section could be code snippets.  It could be cross-linked  
rather than incorporated it into the pattern library itself. A simple  
coding examples library would be a benefit in itself, in there we can  
have anyone contribute an example to fulfil the requirements of the  
example, and people could translate those examples into various  
languages.

(2) User experience guidelines would be the second primary document,  
detailing information on the kind of language that should be used for  
error messages, usage of widgets/controls, input interaction, default  
shortcuts and anything else which becomes UX relevant.

Essentially these two documents can become a simple set dos and don'ts  
for developers to make sure they've got things right.  The HIG in its  
entirety should probably be renamed to "The GNOME Human Interaction  
Specification" - or something equally official in order to signify  
it's detail.

The shorter more accessible documents can be generated by reducing  
content from the existing HIG. There's a massive amount of redundant  
or obvious information in the HIG at present which can safely be  
removed during the process of reducing to these shorter simpler  
documents without opening up any gaping holes in the consistency of  
the desktop experience.

When it comes to practical application it is worth noting that GNOME  
previously had IRC-based UI reviews prior to each stable release,  
where we got some usability, a11y and docs people to look everything  
over post-UI freeze.

In theory, anything that didn't pass muster could be dropped from the  
release, although that never happened in
practice.

<http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Archives?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=howto_write_ui_review.html 
 >

There were problems with that approach, though (never managing nearly  
enough coverage, and happening too late in the cycle to do anything  
other than papering over cracks anyway), and we haven't done one of  
those since 2.14.  So right now, in reality, there are no official  
usability checks before (or indeed after) a module is proposed.

A new review process could be created to deal with the known faults of  
the existing systems once the two new usability documents are created.

The strictness of application has to be defined, but it is worth  
considering a situation whereby if something does not fit with the  
guidelines then it isn't accepted for inclusion in GNOME, but can  
still be hosted on GNOMEs servers. I think it's very important for us  
to show that we want to tackle the consistency and usability in a  
formal manner from now on.

=== End of summary ====

Cheeri,
Calum.

--

-- 
CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer     Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum.benson <at> sun.com            OpenSolaris Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum             +353 1 819 9771

Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
Calum Benson | 1 Oct 2009 19:16
Picon

Re: Requesting a right-click root menu for GNOME 3


On 1 Oct 2009, at 07:36, Karoliina Salminen wrote:

> It is a good idea to support power user features, but design should  
> never be
> built around the power user features because that is not usability for
> normal users, that is fast way to work for very advanced users,  
> maybe 0.01% of the users.

It depends on your definition of "built around".  Sure, we shouldn't  
be exposing hard-core expert features in a novice user's face.

However, power user features absolutely *should* be designed at the  
same time as novice features, so they can be integrated in a  
consistent fashion, and with a level of discoverability that will make  
them available as and when the user's experience and confidence begins  
to grow.

Cheeri,
Calum.

--

-- 
CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer     Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum.benson <at> sun.com            OpenSolaris Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum             +353 1 819 9771

Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
Rick Spencer | 2 Oct 2009 02:48
Picon
Favicon

Re: Requesting a right-click root menu for GNOME 3

I agree with Stormy. It's not an "either/or" discussion. New users and frequent users should both like the system.

Probably the easiest way to get a list of what usability is "about", is to start with Jakob Nielsen's list of
heuristics for his heuristic review method. This stuff has stood the test of time.

The "power user" heuristic is:
Flexibility and efficiency of use -
Accelerators -- unseen by the novice user -- may often speed up the interaction for the expert user such that
the system can cater to both inexperienced and experienced users. Allow users to tailor frequent actions.

wikipedia has a good write up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic_evaluation

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Stormy Peters <stormy <at> gnome.org> wrote:

> From: Stormy Peters <stormy <at> gnome.org>
> Subject: Re: [Usability] Requesting a right-click root menu for GNOME 3
> To: "Karoliina Salminen" <karoliina.t.salminen <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: "Anzan Hoshin Roshi" <anzanhoshinroshi <at> gmail.com>, usability <at> gnome.org
> Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 7:39 AM
> Usability is not just about making
> things easy for novice users. It's about making an
> intuitive interface for people - all people.
> My understanding is that many of the difficulties arise
> in the trade offs between the types of users.
> Stormy
> On Sep 30, 2009 11:36 PM,
> "Karoliina Salminen" <karoliina.t.salminen <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:30 PM,
> Anzan Hoshin Roshi
> <anzanhoshinroshi <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >...Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain how is this power user feature is related
> to usability?
> 
> You apparently are not a representative of normal users at
> all.
> 
> Normal users don't know key shortcuts and right click
> configurable
> 
> this and that,
> 
> they want a plain, simple, slick and cool user interface
> they can click, pan,
> 
> maybe zoom, etc. These right click main menu (like it
> appeared
> 
> originally already
> 
> on fvwm when I was a kid) schemes are so 80s to be
> sincere.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a good idea to support power user features, but
> design should never be
> 
> built around the power user features because that is not
> usability for
> 
> normal users,
> 
> that is fast way to work for very advanced users, maybe
> 0.01% of the users.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Karoliina Salminen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Usability mailing list
> Usability <at> gnome.org
> http://ma...
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Usability mailing list
> Usability <at> gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
> 

Gmane