Lucas Rocha | 1 Mar 17:38 2008
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GNOME Outreach Program: Accessibility - List of tasks published!

Hi all,

For those interested in participating in the GNOME Outreach Program:
Accessibility, you probably want to have a look at the list of tasks
that has just been published in the program's website:

  http://www.gnome.org/projects/outreach/a11y/

So, now what? Read the program rules very carefully and claim one of
the available tasks. Proposals acceptance is open now!

--lucasr
Liam R E Quin | 2 Mar 09:01 2008
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Re: Windows-only software in government

On Thu, 2008-02-28 at 09:22 -0500, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak wrote:
> One of the issues forcing me to keep a few MS Windows computer around in 
> my company are government services relying on Windows-only software, 
> like this example:
> 
> http://www.statcan.ca/english/exports/download.htm
> 
> My company is required to report all exports to non-US destinations 
> using the Windows-only program - or paper forms. Bleh.

I have had some involvement both at Ontario and at Federal levels
in suggesting that the Canadian government move towards open,
standard formats and Free software.  It is a difficult struggle.

At the Ontario Government showcase of Technology when I spoke,
they insisted on PowerPoint slides.  I refused.  In the talk,
I asked how many people thought that government proceedings, and
presentatoins like these, should be archived for 10 years or more,
and most people raised a hand.  A majority did for 40 years.  Then
I asked how many people thought they would be able to read PowerPoint
files in 20 years (after some examples o 20-year-old software like
Wordstar, Magic Wand, etc) and there were I think zero hands.  So
there's understanding there (and there was a Minister in the audience,
nodding away, there's understanding to some extent especially at
the higher levels).

Some arguments that go down well are
* the need to archive
* the need for accessibility
* the need to repurpose information (e.g. print, Web, search...)
(Continue reading)

Dave Neary | 2 Mar 14:06 2008
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Re: Windows-only software in government


Hi Michael,

Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak wrote:
> One of the issues forcing me to keep a few MS Windows computer around in 
> my company are government services relying on Windows-only software, 
> like this example:
> 
> http://www.statcan.ca/english/exports/download.htm
> 
> My company is required to report all exports to non-US destinations 
> using the Windows-only program - or paper forms. Bleh.

This problem goes deeper than government - if you look at the
(enterprise oriented) 2007 Linux Foundation desktop linux survey, two of
the stats which jumped out at me (and which weren't even reported on in
most of the summaries I saw) were these (source:
http://devresources.linux-foundation.org/dev/dtl/survey2007/SurveySummary.html):

7. How critical are the following applications to your Linux
desktop/client deployment? (critical, extremely important, somewhat
important, not important)

Internally developed applications:
	30.1% (2997)	25.6% (2542)	23.8% (2367)	20.5% (2043)	Applications
specific to your business:
	40.6% (4063)	31.0% (3110)	17.6% (1765)	10.8% (1079)	

That is, 55% of enterprise users have internally developped applications
(often as insignificant as some spreadsheet macros written in VB, I
(Continue reading)

Christian Rose | 2 Mar 23:31 2008
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Re: Windows-only software in government

On 2/28/08, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak <mjc <at> avtechpulse.com> wrote:
>  One of the issues forcing me to keep a few MS Windows computer around in
>  my company are government services relying on Windows-only software,
>  like this example:
>
>  http://www.statcan.ca/english/exports/download.htm
>
>  My company is required to report all exports to non-US destinations
>  using the Windows-only program - or paper forms. Bleh.

Sadly, the European Union is no better. I've added one example to the
wiki -- The European Union's Seventh Framework Programme for research
and technological development (FP7)[1] requires that grant agreement
preparation forms be edited using a Windows only application[2]. So if
you want a research grant from the European Union, you're forced to be
using Windows...

[1] http://cordis.europa.eu/en/home.html
[2] http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/ict/participating/grantagreement-prep_en.html

Christian
Bob | 3 Mar 00:38 2008
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Supporting GTK+

Hi,

thank you for reading this email. 

I would like to give a suggestion about window Borders. This might have
been discussed before, but I feel the need to address the issue. 

If you look at most Windows and Mac apps, the newer ones don't have
window borders. I agree that this is the best way to go. I have noticed
that most apps developed with GTK+ have windows boarder and did not no
if it's because the GTK+ doesn't support not having borders or if the
developers are just not creating apps without borders. I feel that
borders make the app feel a little cluttersome. Is there a way to ensure
I don't have borders on my windows? I would really really really love to
develop apps without borders.

Thanks!

The Net Duck
Mikael Hallendal | 3 Mar 14:38 2008

Re: Supporting GTK+

3 mar 2008 kl. 00.38 skrev Bob:

Hi Bob,

This is not the mailing list for these kind of questions, I suggest  
you use gtk-app-devel list [1].

Not entirely sure what you want to do but you can look at  
gtk_window_set_decorated() [2] for starts. You may also take a look in  
the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines to see what is suggested about  
main windows [3].

Best Regards,
   Mikael Hallendal

[1] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list

[2] http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-decorated

[3] http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-primary.html.en

> Hi,
>
> thank you for reading this email.
>
> I would like to give a suggestion about window Borders. This might  
> have
> been discussed before, but I feel the need to address the issue.
>
> If you look at most Windows and Mac apps, the newer ones don't have
(Continue reading)

Richard Stallman | 3 Mar 19:26 2008
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Re: Windows-only software in government

    So if
    you want a research grant from the European Union, you're forced to be
    using Windows...

We need to organize a campaign to change this.  I wonder if Neelie Kroes
could help.
Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak | 4 Mar 14:22 2008

Re: Windows-only software in government

Liam R E Quin wrote:
> Some arguments that go down well are
> * the need to archive
> * the need for accessibility
> * the need to repurpose information (e.g. print, Web, search...)
> * the need to control costs
> * the need to have control over core technology, to use trusted software
> * the need to encourage and support the Canadian IT industry

Thanks, that's really useful. I've added it to 
http://live.gnome.org/Government.

I'm trying to build up a base of useful arguments before firing off 
letters to ministers and members of parliament...

- Mike
Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak | 4 Mar 14:26 2008

Re: Windows-only software in government

Richard Stallman wrote:
> Is the question really "Why the government should not require the
> public to be a Microsoft customer in order to deal with their
> government?"  Presenting it that way would make a stronger point.

Yes, thank you, that is better! I've updated the wiki.

- Mike
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay | 4 Mar 15:49 2008
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A word of thanks


Have been meaning to do this for a while. This is just a word of thanks
to the Foundation Board for approving a tidy amount that came handy for
swag in India. Right through foss.in to a smaller set of events in
February (GNUnify, FOSSKriti, freed.in) had GNOME supporters. FOSSKriti
was a bit of a success for the Beagle hackfest as well.

Might be [OT] for this list, but thought that it is always good to share
good news.

~sankarshan

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