Luke Yelavich | 2 Dec 02:32 2011

Extending GtkMenuItemAccessible to allow applications to set alternative accessible names for menu items.

Hi all,
One feature request that the Ubuntu accessibility team receives from users, is the ability to find out the
signal strength and security of a wireless network that appears in the network list. In the case of
network-manager, the icon is used to convey network signal strength and security to the user. After
looking through the code of GtkMenuItem, and GtkMenuItemAccessible, I've determined that there is
currently no way to set an alternative accessible name for a menu item, in the case where the icon is
conveying extra information to the user. Yes, one could put sed information in the label, but that would
bloat the menu item visually, which is not desired.

I was talking to a few GTK developers on IRC earlier today about GtkMenuItem, GtkMenuItemAccessible, and
somehow allowing applications to set alternative accessible names for menu items, whether it be via an
extension to the GtkMenuItem API, or extending the GtkMenuItemAccessible object to allow applications
to set a different accessible name using the atk_object_set_name method call. Benjamin did suggest that
the icon could possibly be exposed via another atk object which is a child of the menu item, with a
description set in the icon atk object to describe the icon, however this gets messy when submenus are put
into the picture.

I'll let Benjamin et al reply as to what their thoughts are about this proposal, but I'd be interested in
hearing from the GNOME accessibility development community WRT this proposal. Not all applications
display icons in menus, and when they do, not all applications dynamically change the icons in menu items
to convey different information, as the icons are usually used as visual queues for different tasks, like
save, open, etc.

If there is a better approach to solving this problem, I'd also be interested to hear it, but whatever route
we take, I hoep we can come to a concensus soon, as I would like to have something in place for users for the
Ubuntu 12.04 release. It also gives the GNOME desktop just that little bit more pollish. from a screen
reader user point of view.

Thoughts, suggestions, comments welcome.

(Continue reading)

Alexander Surkov | 2 Dec 05:39 2011
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Re: Extending GtkMenuItemAccessible to allow applications to set alternative accessible names for menu items.

Doesn't UI provide a tooltip in this case which is usually mapped to
accessible name if name is not provided? At least that happens on the
web.

But technically it's sort of weird that application creates a widget
but it can't control the properties of widget accessible object.

Thanks.
Alex.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Luke Yelavich
<luke.yelavich <at> canonical.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> One feature request that the Ubuntu accessibility team receives from users, is the ability to find out the
signal strength and security of a wireless network that appears in the network list. In the case of
network-manager, the icon is used to convey network signal strength and security to the user. After
looking through the code of GtkMenuItem, and GtkMenuItemAccessible, I've determined that there is
currently no way to set an alternative accessible name for a menu item, in the case where the icon is
conveying extra information to the user. Yes, one could put sed information in the label, but that would
bloat the menu item visually, which is not desired.
>
> I was talking to a few GTK developers on IRC earlier today about GtkMenuItem, GtkMenuItemAccessible, and
somehow allowing applications to set alternative accessible names for menu items, whether it be via an
extension to the GtkMenuItem API, or extending the GtkMenuItemAccessible object to allow applications
to set a different accessible name using the atk_object_set_name method call. Benjamin did suggest that
the icon could possibly be exposed via another atk object which is a child of the menu item, with a
description set in the icon atk object to describe the icon, however this gets messy when submenus are put
into the picture.
>
> I'll let Benjamin et al reply as to what their thoughts are about this proposal, but I'd be interested in
(Continue reading)

Luke Yelavich | 6 Dec 23:27 2011

Re: [g-a-devel] Extending GtkMenuItemAccessible to allow applications to set alternative accessible names for menu items.

On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 03:39:22PM EST, Alexander Surkov wrote:
> Doesn't UI provide a tooltip in this case which is usually mapped to
> accessible name if name is not provided? At least that happens on the
> web.

So far as I know, a lot of widgets do have support for tooltips, but menu items are not one of them.

Luke
Trevor Saunders | 8 Dec 21:15 2011
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Re: [orca-list] Thunderbird launching very slowly if Orca running. Why happening this?

On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 12:46:27PM -0500, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> Hey all.
> 
> >>TOTAL PROCESSING TIME: 24.5515
> >
> >what unit is this? if its seconds that's really suprising.
> 
> Yeah, it's seconds. And looking at Attila's debug output there are

hmm, it seemed to me like that was the processing time for just one of
the events, but I guess I don't understand the format that well :-)

> over 10,000 lines (yes ten thousand!!!) of
> object:property-change:accessible-name getting queued up. One line
> per event. In other words, this is an epic event flood from
> Thunderbird or Gecko. I'm really not sure what I can do other than
> to ask Thunderbird/Gecko to just cut it out for pete's sake.

Well, that's simple, thunderbird can just not tell you about the
messages ;-)

More seriously the way a email client works is you have a treeviewish
thing with a list of all your messages (in this case ~25000).  Each item
in the list view should be an accessible right? so we need to add each
of those 2500 accessibles, and then tell at-spi that each of them got a
name.  I'm not sure why its 10000+ instead of 2500+ but that's roughly a
factor of four so with 0 debuging involved I'll gues there is more than
one accessible per message.

SO while I understand not wanting that many events I think you want
(Continue reading)

Piñeiro | 9 Dec 14:27 2011

Re: [orca-list] Thunderbird launching very slowly if Orca running. Why happening this?

On 12/08/2011 09:15 PM, Trevor Saunders wrote:
>
> SO while I understand not wanting that many events I think you want
> that more than the alternative.
>
> I think the solution here needs to be some sort of api change in atk or
> smart events, so ccing g-a-d

Hi, I was been talking with Joanmarie briefly about this, and also
checking when this notification is sent.

In summary, it is sent each time the accessible name for an object
changes. And this includes when you set the initial value, so the reason
of the low start.

So, at this moment I don't think that this should require an API change,
but as you said, smart events. In that sense, just sent it when
required. Some options:

  * Use the same solution that with roles: default value for role is
UNKNOWN. When it is changed to something meaningful (like BUTTON), atk
doesn't sent that notification. So we could just avoid to sent the
name-change notification when you go from not having a name to having a
name, assuming that this is the initial set. Not sure about that, as
this is a real change on the name.
   * I was wondering if this notification is required always. Do we need
to know that a invisible object have changed his name? So probably other
option could be just sent the notification if the object is in a
specific state (ie: being focused).

(Continue reading)

Trevor Saunders | 14 Dec 12:26 2011
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Re: [orca-list] Thunderbird launching very slowly if Orca running. Why happening this?

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 02:27:52PM +0100, Piñeiro wrote:
> On 12/08/2011 09:15 PM, Trevor Saunders wrote:
> >
> > SO while I understand not wanting that many events I think you want
> > that more than the alternative.
> >
> > I think the solution here needs to be some sort of api change in atk or
> > smart events, so ccing g-a-d
> 
> Hi, I was been talking with Joanmarie briefly about this, and also
> checking when this notification is sent.

sorry about the late reply.

> So, at this moment I don't think that this should require an API change,
> but as you said, smart events. In that sense, just sent it when
> required. Some options:
> 
>   * Use the same solution that with roles: default value for role is
> UNKNOWN. When it is changed to something meaningful (like BUTTON), atk
> doesn't sent that notification. So we could just avoid to sent the
> name-change notification when you go from not having a name to having a
> name, assuming that this is the initial set. Not sure about that, as
> this is a real change on the name.
>    * I was wondering if this notification is required always. Do we need
> to know that a invisible object have changed his name? So probably other
> option could be just sent the notification if the object is in a
> specific state (ie: being focused).
> 
> But this are only initial ideas, that require refinement. I will
(Continue reading)

Piñeiro | 14 Dec 18:42 2011

Re: [orca-list] Thunderbird launching very slowly if Orca running. Why happening this?

On 12/14/2011 12:26 PM, Trevor Saunders wrote:
>
>
> But this are only initial ideas, that require refinement. I will
> investigate it.
>  So, my understanding (mostly from
>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659018) is that at-spi2
>  uses the signal internally for cache coherency.  So if we want to take
>  this route I think it needs to happen within atk / atk-bridge.  However
>  I'm not convinced this is really the best option here.  Having to
>  create 2500 objects just to fire events on them is rather unfortunate.

Taking into account the explanation from Mike on the atk bug that I created:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665870#c2

This message and the relation with the cache coherency is only required
when the label updates his name. But from "something" to "something
new". We are proposing to not emit the signal if the change is from NULL
(nothing) to "first value", and seems that Mike is blessing it. Mike are
you here? Could you confirm it? In fact my plan is implement and test it.

And this complain about "having to create 2500 objects just to fire
events", is, IMHO, a different problem. But it is true that needs some
discussion. On the gobject world this could be solved by having
atkobject as a interface [1], but this shouldn't solve the issue on
other toolkits, like the ones based on C++ (Unity, Gecko) or Java. But
as I said, I think that this belongs to a different discussion thread.

[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642597
(Continue reading)

Mike Gorse | 14 Dec 18:47 2011

Re: [orca-list] Thunderbird launching very slowly if Orca running. Why happening this?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, Piñeiro wrote:

> Taking into account the explanation from Mike on the atk bug that I created:
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665870#c2
>
> This message and the relation with the cache coherency is only required
> when the label updates his name. But from "something" to "something
> new". We are proposing to not emit the signal if the change is from NULL
> (nothing) to "first value", and seems that Mike is blessing it. Mike are
> you here? Could you confirm it? In fact my plan is implement and test it.

I think this makes sense. It would essentially mean that we would be doing 
for names (and descriptions, I guess) what we are already doing for 
roles...

-Mike G-
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Juanjo Marín | 17 Dec 02:17 2011
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Picon

GNOME Launches Campaign for Accessibility


Friday 16th dec, the GNOME Foundation announces a fundraising campaign [1] to kick off 2012 as the Year of
Accessibility for GNOME.

GNOME has held accessibility amongst its core values from the project’s inception. Because of this
commitment, along with the efforts of many dedicated developers, GNOME 2 became an award winning
accessible free desktop environment.

“For me, GNU/Linux and GNOME equal freedom, and without all of the hard work which has been put into all of
this wonderful software, I would truly be at a loss. This is why further development and maintenance of
accessible software is so important to me.” –Read the rest of Robert Cole’s story here [2]

With the advent of GNOME 3, GNOME has started down an exciting new path in terms of usability, which will
include users of all ages and abilities. This drive is not only necessary for those with disabilities but
is also increasingly needed for our devices work for any user. The GNOME accessibility team is working
hard, but its resources are more limited than in the past.

With your help we can tackle the accessibility team’s many goals [3], making GNOME the best and most
accessible desktop available today. Please help us make 2012 the Year of Accessibility at
GNOME! Donate $25 or more today [1] and ask your friends to donate too.

Contribute and spread the word !

Links:

   [1] http://www.gnome.org/friends/
   [2] http://www.gnome.org/friends/a11y-testomonial.html
   [3] https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG
_______________________________________________
gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
(Continue reading)

Bill Cox | 17 Dec 03:56 2011
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Re: GNOME Launches Campaign for Accessibility

I'd feel a lot better pushing gnome accessibility if GTK+ wasn't such
a complete lost cause in terms of accessibility improvement.  Pixmaps
should have accessible descriptions.  The calendar should talk.
Someone somewhere in GTK+ land should care, and I just don't see it.
I recommend channeling the few dollars we can influence towards
projects that have actually made a big difference in the last two
years: Orca, NVDA, emacspeak, speakup, Ubuntu, Vinux, Debian, and many
others.  I am listening to this e-mail with NVDA, though if I happened
to be in Linux, I'd be Orca.  People like Joan Marie and James Teh
make this possible, at great personal sacrifice.  Other than the
complete lack of cooperation from the GTK+ team over the last two
years, what should I be feeling about Gnome that would make me want to
organize contributors to support Gnome accessibility?  Where are the
contributors like Joan Marie or Luke?  I believe they are there, but
the Gnome organization keeps them from making any positive difference.
 The Gnome organization is built to give individuals complete power
over their tiny domains of source code, making it impossible for broad
goals like accessibility to move forward.  It's like trying to have
free trade in a country where every land owner can tax anyone passing
through their property.  Let's put our dollars elsewhere.

Bill

On 12/16/11, Juanjo Marín <juanjomarin96 <at> yahoo.es> wrote:
>
> Friday 16th dec, the GNOME Foundation announces a fundraising campaign [1]
> to kick off 2012 as the Year of Accessibility for GNOME.
>
> GNOME has held accessibility amongst its core values from the project’s
> inception. Because of this commitment, along with the efforts of many
(Continue reading)


Gmane