Hi, Many cyrillic letters have the same shape as latin letters. But when DejaVu is used for such letters, they look differently -- like this is not the same font. Is this intended? Do you plan to fix that? A screenshot is attached. On the left, there are latin letters, and on the right there are cyrillic ones. All is with DejaVu Sans. Regards, ogi
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Ognyan Kulev wrote: > Hi, > > Many cyrillic letters have the same shape as latin letters. But when DejaVu > is used for such letters, they look differently -- like this is not the same > font. Is this intended? Do you plan to fix that? > > A screenshot is attached. On the left, there are latin letters, and on the > right there are cyrillic ones. All is with DejaVu Sans. The glyphs are the same (am I right, Danilo?). I guess the difference is in the lack of hinting in cyrillic ones. What system is it? Have a nice day. Stepan Roh
Hi Ogi, Stepan, Today at 11:46, Stepan Roh wrote: >> Many cyrillic letters have the same shape as latin letters. But >> when DejaVu is used for such letters, they look differently -- like >> this is not the same font. Is this intended? Do you plan to fix >> that? >> >> A screenshot is attached. On the left, there are latin letters, and >> on the right there are cyrillic ones. All is with DejaVu Sans. > > The glyphs are the same (am I right, Danilo?). I guess the difference > is in the lack of hinting in cyrillic ones. What system is it? Yes, that's what I suppose as well. FWIW, they differ even on systems using FreeType2 for rendering, so I prefer to have Cyrillic glyphs auto-hinted (actually, I like auto-hinting all glyphs, so they look the same). We have plans to hint Cyrillic glyphs as well (perhaps we should just copy instructions over—can that be done David? though, this would be ugly on its own, since some letters would be hinted and others wouldn't), but we're not there yet. FWIW, I've heard from a friend that Cyrillic looks disastreous on Windows, but I don't know how would I go about fixing that :( Cheers, Danilo(Continue reading)
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, [utf-8] Danilo Šegan wrote: > Hi Ogi, Stepan, > > Today at 11:46, Stepan Roh wrote: > >>> Many cyrillic letters have the same shape as latin letters. But >>> when DejaVu is used for such letters, they look differently -- like >>> this is not the same font. Is this intended? Do you plan to fix >>> that? >>> >>> A screenshot is attached. On the left, there are latin letters, and >>> on the right there are cyrillic ones. All is with DejaVu Sans. >> >> The glyphs are the same (am I right, Danilo?). I guess the difference >> is in the lack of hinting in cyrillic ones. What system is it? > > Yes, that's what I suppose as well. FWIW, they differ even on systems > using FreeType2 for rendering, so I prefer to have Cyrillic glyphs > auto-hinted (actually, I like auto-hinting all glyphs, so they look > the same). We have plans to hint Cyrillic glyphs as well (perhaps we > should just copy instructions over˙˙can that be done David? though, > this would be ugly on its own, since some letters would be hinted and > others wouldn't), but we're not there yet. If the cyrillic glyph is exact copy, copying TtfInstrs/EndTtf inside SFD is OK. > FWIW, I've heard from a friend that Cyrillic looks disastreous(Continue reading)
Hi Stepan, Today at 12:37, Stepan Roh wrote: > If the cyrillic glyph is exact copy, copying TtfInstrs/EndTtf inside > SFD is OK. Yeah, but I still think it would be more than funny to have one letter "crisp", and the one next to it (in words, in real text) "fuzzy" or "edgy". >> FWIW, I've heard from a friend that Cyrillic looks disastreous >> on Windows, but I don't know how would I go about fixing that :( > > Hinting would probably help, I guess. Yeah, I thought more of "what else except hinting", since I don't know how to do hinting (yet :). Cheers, Danilo
Danilo Šegan wrote: > Yeah, but I still think it would be more than funny to have one letter > "crisp", and the one next to it (in words, in real text) "fuzzy" or > "edgy". I agree that hinting only the shapes that come from Bitstream Vera and leaving the rest cyrillic letters without hinting is worse than no hinting for all cyrillic letters. I think you should definately add this item to http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Plans . The screenshot was of Abiword on Debian Sarge (freetype2). Regards, ogi
Hi Ogi, Today at 15:32, Ognyan Kulev wrote: > Danilo Šegan wrote: >> Yeah, but I still think it would be more than funny to have one letter >> "crisp", and the one next to it (in words, in real text) "fuzzy" or >> "edgy". > > I agree that hinting only the shapes that come from Bitstream Vera and > leaving the rest cyrillic letters without hinting is worse than no > hinting for all cyrillic letters. I actually only thought of having some Cyrillic glyphs hinted (those which are exactly the same as the ones in Bitstream Vera) vs. none Cyrillic glyphs hinted. FWIW, I agree with you completely, because that would allow FT2 auto-hinter to auto-hint entire font (thereby looking similar across entire range), but I'm certain that would be near to impossible to convince other Latin-only folks to drop hints from Latin area (right, Stepan? :). I.e. only us who use Cyrillic for our daily work will have problems with it, and that's why I compile FreeType2 with bytecode interpreter disabled instead (you can also try playing with auto-hinter options in your /etc/fonts/fonts.conf). Cheers, Danilo(Continue reading)
Danilo Šegan wrote: > I actually only thought of having some Cyrillic glyphs hinted (those > which are exactly the same as the ones in Bitstream Vera) vs. none > Cyrillic glyphs hinted. > > FWIW, I agree with you completely, because that would allow FT2 > auto-hinter to auto-hint entire font (thereby looking similar across > entire range), but I'm certain that would be near to impossible to > convince other Latin-only folks to drop hints from Latin area (right, > Stepan? :). I.e. only us who use Cyrillic for our daily work will > have problems with it, and that's why I compile FreeType2 with > bytecode interpreter disabled instead (you can also try playing with > auto-hinter options in your /etc/fonts/fonts.conf). I installed DejaVu and set it in Mozilla as default family for all encodings. In Debian Sarge, auto-hinting is disabled by default and latin and cyrillic characters look differently. When I enable global auto-hinting, both (latin & cyrillic) look equally "fuzzy"Screenshots are attached. So as I said, better not add hinting for selected cyrillic characters, but all or nothing. Hinting on selected cyrillic characters will be worse than autohint-off.png. Regards, ogi
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, [utf-8] Danilo Šegan wrote: > Hi Ogi, > > Today at 15:32, Ognyan Kulev wrote: > >> Danilo Šegan wrote: >>> Yeah, but I still think it would be more than funny to have one letter >>> "crisp", and the one next to it (in words, in real text) "fuzzy" or >>> "edgy". >> >> I agree that hinting only the shapes that come from Bitstream Vera and >> leaving the rest cyrillic letters without hinting is worse than no >> hinting for all cyrillic letters. > > I actually only thought of having some Cyrillic glyphs hinted (those > which are exactly the same as the ones in Bitstream Vera) vs. none > Cyrillic glyphs hinted. > > FWIW, I agree with you completely, because that would allow FT2 > auto-hinter to auto-hint entire font (thereby looking similar across > entire range), but I'm certain that would be near to impossible to > convince other Latin-only folks to drop hints from Latin area (right, > Stepan? :). I use auto-hinter and antialiasing so I don't care(Continue reading)But others do care, I'm afraid. > I.e. only us who use Cyrillic for our daily work will
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