Peter J Farley III | 1 Sep 03:29 2005
Picon

Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

--- In turnkey-mvs@..., psysltd <at> m... wrote:
<Snipped> 
> But now (as before) I'm confused- do I have to do something
> further? Was this the starter system, or is this the "final"
> system.  I saw some pages in the cookbook which talk about running
> the starter setup first. I ran the ins0010.bat file but now I'm
> thinking maybe it was for nothing since I had the starter system
> running already?

OK, if you ran ins0010.bat, you pretty well messed up the Turnkey 
system.  It reinitializes and loads MVSRES (among other DASD 
volumes) to MVS STARTER SYTEM state, not TK3 final state.

Go back to square one.  Do not pass GO, do not collect salary.  
Delete all installed TK3 directories and start over again from the 
TK3 CD.

The TK3 setup script gives you a running system, ready to start 
mainframe work, with lots of goodies already added for you to play 
with.  The "insnnnn" scripts are for (re)creating a working TK3 
system starting from the bare MVS 3.8J "starter packs" and running a 
full SYSGEN process (a very long and involved process).  Some folks 
like to begin at the beginning to see how it was done.  Others just 
want to use the system to do other things.  YMMV.

If you want to start with the starter system, though, answer the 
initial setup script question appropriately and it will set things 
up for you to start there instead of at TK3 final configuration.

> Couple of other items:
(Continue reading)

Howard Dean | 1 Sep 06:51 2005
Picon

Re: Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [turnkey-mvs] Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system


Couple of other items:

1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a password- I couldn't find what it
was.

Israel
 
Hi Israel,
 
To find the HERC02 password, do the following:
 
1. Sign onto TSO using HERC01 or IBMUSER
2. ALLOCATE FI(SYSUADS) DA('SYS1.UADS') SHR
3. Enter the command: ACCOUNT
4. Enter the command: LIST (*)
This should scroll through all the USERIDs and  list the passwords. The entries
with an (*) as the password requires no password. Otherwise the password is listed.
5. Enter the command: END
 
 
Howard

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psysltd | 1 Sep 08:16 2005
Picon

Re: Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

Hi Peter,

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:29:33 -0000, "Peter J Farley III"
<pjfarley3@...> said:
> --- In turnkey-mvs@..., psysltd <at> m... wrote:
> <Snipped> 
> > But now (as before) I'm confused- do I have to do something
> > further? Was this the starter system, or is this the "final"
> > system.  I saw some pages in the cookbook which talk about running
> > the starter setup first. I ran the ins0010.bat file but now I'm
> > thinking maybe it was for nothing since I had the starter system
> > running already?
> 
> OK, if you ran ins0010.bat, you pretty well messed up the Turnkey 
> system.  It reinitializes and loads MVSRES (among other DASD 
> volumes) to MVS STARTER SYTEM state, not TK3 final state.

That's what I was afraid of, but I'm still able to ipl 148 and bring up
the system, and sign on to TSO...  The ins0010.bat did get moved to the
\done directory, so for sure it did its thing.  I guess I'll leave
things alone unless something just doesn't work anymore.

> The TK3 setup script gives you a running system, ready to start 
> mainframe work, with lots of goodies already added for you to play 
> with. 

I started out on MFT but I was punching cards on 029s and 129s back
then.  (How can we ever go back to line-editor mode?!)  When I typed
"ISPF" after the TSO logon and it said "command not found," I broke out
in a panic ;-)  

Does anybody have a full-screen editor/browser running?  How do you view
dumps?  This is a wierd reverse learning curve!  I can't remember how I
used to work on this stuff!

> The "insnnnn" scripts are for (re)creating a working TK3 
> system starting from the bare MVS 3.8J "starter packs" and running a 
> full SYSGEN process (a very long and involved process).  Some folks 
> like to begin at the beginning to see how it was done.  Others just 
> want to use the system to do other things.  YMMV.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was never a sysprog so I'll leave that
part to Volker and you other professional guys :-)

> > 
> > 1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a password- I couldn't find
> > what it was.
> 
> Once you have TK3 installed again and started up, you can use the 
> cookbook instructions on adding/changing/listing users.  IIRC, the 
> LIST subcommand can tell you all about all of the useried's that are 
> defined to the system, including passwords.
> 
> Use HERC01 (no password) to do such things.

I was confused only because HERC01 didn't need a password, but HERC02
did.  I didn't see any discussion about the passwords on the cookbook
pages.  Howard sent me the details on finding the info.

> 
> > 2) What is the break key from Vista?  ATTN?  SYSREQ?  something
> > else?  I got into a loop a couple of times in TSO with trying to
> > break out of a prompt and I couldn't do it.
> 
> Umm-m-m, in the Vista documentation perhaps?  I don't use that 
> emulator so I haven't a clue where ATTN or SYSREQ are defined.

No, my question was on which control key MVS wants...based on what
Vista's terminology is.

I'm just getting "X SYSTEM" on TSO when I try ATTN, SYSREQ, etc.

> 
> As for TSO (TK3 or otherwise), I *thought* that ATTN would get you 
> out of pretty much any command that isn't coded to ignore it.  If 
> not, tell us what you can't get out of, there's always a possibility 
> there is a bug somewhere... :)

If I can recreate the scenario, I'll let you know. 

> 
> HTH
> 
> Peter

Thanks very much to you and all of the guys who have been helping me,
and to the guys who worked on all this stuff to make it available.  It's
really a thrill to have a real operating system running on this bucket
of bolts for the first time!

Eat my dust, Bill Gates!

Israel

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Phil Dickinson | 1 Sep 08:50 2005
Picon

Re: Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

ATTN and SYSREQ only have meaning in SNA.
 
For a similar function to ATTN in a non-SNA environment try PA1 (you may need to press RESET first).
 
SYSREQ doesn't make sense in a non-SNA environment.
 
ATTN sends a SNA SIGNAL to request change direction, if I remember correctly.
SYSREQ switches the presentation space between the LU-LU session and the LU-SSCP session.
 
You don't need to know that :-)

Phil.
 
On 9/1/05, psysltd-NBZbi/Fi3aAqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org <psysltd-NBZbi/Fi3aAqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi Peter,

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:29:33 -0000, "Peter J Farley III"
< pjfarley3-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> said:
> --- In turnkey-mvs-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org, psysltd <at> m... wrote:
> <Snipped>
> > But now (as before) I'm confused- do I have to do something
> > further? Was this the starter system, or is this the "final"
> > system.  I saw some pages in the cookbook which talk about running
> > the starter setup first. I ran the ins0010.bat file but now I'm
> > thinking maybe it was for nothing since I had the starter system
> > running already?
>
> OK, if you ran ins0010.bat, you pretty well messed up the Turnkey
> system.  It reinitializes and loads MVSRES (among other DASD
> volumes) to MVS STARTER SYTEM state, not TK3 final state.

That's what I was afraid of, but I'm still able to ipl 148 and bring up
the system, and sign on to TSO...  The ins0010.bat did get moved to the
\done directory, so for sure it did its thing.  I guess I'll leave
things alone unless something just doesn't work anymore.

> The TK3 setup script gives you a running system, ready to start
> mainframe work, with lots of goodies already added for you to play
> with.

I started out on MFT but I was punching cards on 029s and 129s back
then.  (How can we ever go back to line-editor mode?!)  When I typed
"ISPF" after the TSO logon and it said "command not found," I broke out
in a panic ;-)

Does anybody have a full-screen editor/browser running?  How do you view
dumps?  This is a wierd reverse learning curve!  I can't remember how I
used to work on this stuff!

> The "insnnnn" scripts are for (re)creating a working TK3
> system starting from the bare MVS 3.8J "starter packs" and running a
> full SYSGEN process (a very long and involved process).  Some folks
> like to begin at the beginning to see how it was done.  Others just
> want to use the system to do other things.  YMMV.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was never a sysprog so I'll leave that
part to Volker and you other professional guys :-)

> >
> > 1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a password- I couldn't find
> > what it was.
>
> Once you have TK3 installed again and started up, you can use the
> cookbook instructions on adding/changing/listing users.  IIRC, the
> LIST subcommand can tell you all about all of the useried's that are
> defined to the system, including passwords.
>
> Use HERC01 (no password) to do such things.

I was confused only because HERC01 didn't need a password, but HERC02
did.  I didn't see any discussion about the passwords on the cookbook
pages.  Howard sent me the details on finding the info.

>
> > 2) What is the break key from Vista?  ATTN?  SYSREQ?  something
> > else?  I got into a loop a couple of times in TSO with trying to
> > break out of a prompt and I couldn't do it.
>
> Umm-m-m, in the Vista documentation perhaps?  I don't use that
> emulator so I haven't a clue where ATTN or SYSREQ are defined.

No, my question was on which control key MVS wants...based on what
Vista's terminology is.

I'm just getting "X SYSTEM" on TSO when I try ATTN, SYSREQ, etc.

>
> As for TSO (TK3 or otherwise), I *thought* that ATTN would get you
> out of pretty much any command that isn't coded to ignore it.  If
> not, tell us what you can't get out of, there's always a possibility
> there is a bug somewhere... :)

If I can recreate the scenario, I'll let you know.

>
> HTH
>
> Peter

Thanks very much to you and all of the guys who have been helping me,
and to the guys who worked on all this stuff to make it available.  It's
really a thrill to have a real operating system running on this bucket
of bolts for the first time!

Eat my dust, Bill Gates!

Israel

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                         or over the web



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Peter J Farley III | 1 Sep 14:43 2005
Picon

Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

--- In turnkey-mvs@..., psysltd <at> m... wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:29:33 -0000, "Peter J Farley III"
> <pjfarley3 <at> y...> said:
<Snipped>
> > OK, if you ran ins0010.bat, you pretty well messed up the
> > Turnkey system.  It reinitializes and loads MVSRES (among other
> > DASD volumes) to MVS STARTER SYTEM state, not TK3 final state.
> 
> That's what I was afraid of, but I'm still able to ipl 148 and
> bring up the system, and sign on to TSO...  The ins0010.bat did
> get moved to the \done directory, so for sure it did its thing. 
> I guess I'll leave things alone unless something just doesn't work
> anymore.

Your system, your choice.

<Snipped>
> When I typed "ISPF" after the TSO logon and it said "command not
> found," I broke out in a panic ;-)  

Try typing RPF instead (Rob's Programming Facility).  When you get 
more comfortable with the system, install the latest version (see 
the file archives).  TK3 came with RPF 1.4.2, IIRC, and RPF 1.5.2 is 
now available.

ISPF is licensed stuff and thus is not available to us.

Peter

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holloway_tim | 1 Sep 22:37 2005

Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

--- In turnkey-mvs@..., psysltd <at> m... wrote:

> > > 
> > > 1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a password- I couldn't find
> > > what it was.

It actually is documented. I know because I had to sign on as HERC02
in my ongoing quest to get GCC running under MVS, and I dug it out of
my turnkey notebook.

I'm not where I can grab it at the moment, but I *think* that that
information came from Jay Maynard's website.

Myself, I didn't panic when ISPF wasn't available, but do I miss not
having ROSCOE. Spent close to 5 years as a ROSCOE administrator.

I keep hoping to discover that someone's written an ISPF editor mode
for Emacs. If I had that, I could use it along with the Emacs network
facilities to whip up a pretty passable equivalent to client/server
ISPF. <evil chortle>

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somitcw | 3 Sep 03:19 2005
Picon
Picon

Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

--- In turnkey-mvs@...,
 psysltd <at> m... wrote:
- - - snipped - - -
> 1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a
>password- I couldn't find what it was.
- - - snipped - - -

   I don't know what the HERC02 password is.
You can log on to HERC01 or HERC03 and use
RPF to browse SYS1.UADS to find it and the
one for HERC04.

   You need to install IND$FILE and RPF
1.5.2+ from the Turnkey-MVS files sections.
IND$FILE is also available from H390-MVS.
Do not install RPF 1.5.2 or an older RPF.
1.5.2 is a couple of years old and several
features have been added to change it to
1.5.2+

   You also need to use the RPF 1.5.2+ JCL
in the Turnkey-MVS files section.  After
submitting the JCL, set a CLASS=S init.
$ti4,s then $si4

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Howard Dean | 3 Sep 11:25 2005
Picon

Re: Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

Hi Phil,
 
On the 3270 emulator supplied with the Turnkey-MVS system, how do you find out which PC keyboard key
is PA1? Is there a keyboard map facility somewhere?
 
 
Howard
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [turnkey-mvs] Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

ATTN and SYSREQ only have meaning in SNA.
 
For a similar function to ATTN in a non-SNA environment try PA1 (you may need to press RESET first).
 
SYSREQ doesn't make sense in a non-SNA environment.
 
ATTN sends a SNA SIGNAL to request change direction, if I remember correctly.
SYSREQ switches the presentation space between the LU-LU session and the LU-SSCP session.
 
You don't need to know that :-)

Phil.
 
On 9/1/05, psysltd-NBZbi/Fi3aAqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org <psysltd-NBZbi/Fi3aAqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi Peter,

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:29:33 -0000, "Peter J Farley III"
< pjfarley3-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> said:
> --- In turnkey-mvs-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org, psysltd <at> m... wrote:
> <Snipped>
> > But now (as before) I'm confused- do I have to do something
> > further? Was this the starter system, or is this the "final"
> > system.  I saw some pages in the cookbook which talk about running
> > the starter setup first. I ran the ins0010.bat file but now I'm
> > thinking maybe it was for nothing since I had the starter system
> > running already?
>
> OK, if you ran ins0010.bat, you pretty well messed up the Turnkey
> system.  It reinitializes and loads MVSRES (among other DASD
> volumes) to MVS STARTER SYTEM state, not TK3 final state.

That's what I was afraid of, but I'm still able to ipl 148 and bring up
the system, and sign on to TSO...  The ins0010.bat did get moved to the
\done directory, so for sure it did its thing.  I guess I'll leave
things alone unless something just doesn't work anymore.

> The TK3 setup script gives you a running system, ready to start
> mainframe work, with lots of goodies already added for you to play
> with.

I started out on MFT but I was punching cards on 029s and 129s back
then.  (How can we ever go back to line-editor mode?!)  When I typed
"ISPF" after the TSO logon and it said "command not found," I broke out
in a panic ;-)

Does anybody have a full-screen editor/browser running?  How do you view
dumps?  This is a wierd reverse learning curve!  I can't remember how I
used to work on this stuff!

> The "insnnnn" scripts are for (re)creating a working TK3
> system starting from the bare MVS 3.8J "starter packs" and running a
> full SYSGEN process (a very long and involved process).  Some folks
> like to begin at the beginning to see how it was done.  Others just
> want to use the system to do other things.  YMMV.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was never a sysprog so I'll leave that
part to Volker and you other professional guys :-)

> >
> > 1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a password- I couldn't find
> > what it was.
>
> Once you have TK3 installed again and started up, you can use the
> cookbook instructions on adding/changing/listing users.  IIRC, the
> LIST subcommand can tell you all about all of the useried's that are
> defined to the system, including passwords.
>
> Use HERC01 (no password) to do such things.

I was confused only because HERC01 didn't need a password, but HERC02
did.  I didn't see any discussion about the passwords on the cookbook
pages.  Howard sent me the details on finding the info.

>
> > 2) What is the break key from Vista?  ATTN?  SYSREQ?  something
> > else?  I got into a loop a couple of times in TSO with trying to
> > break out of a prompt and I couldn't do it.
>
> Umm-m-m, in the Vista documentation perhaps?  I don't use that
> emulator so I haven't a clue where ATTN or SYSREQ are defined.

No, my question was on which control key MVS wants...based on what
Vista's terminology is.

I'm just getting "X SYSTEM" on TSO when I try ATTN, SYSREQ, etc.

>
> As for TSO (TK3 or otherwise), I *thought* that ATTN would get you
> out of pretty much any command that isn't coded to ignore it.  If
> not, tell us what you can't get out of, there's always a possibility
> there is a bug somewhere... :)

If I can recreate the scenario, I'll let you know.

>
> HTH
>
> Peter

Thanks very much to you and all of the guys who have been helping me,
and to the guys who worked on all this stuff to make it available.  It's
really a thrill to have a real operating system running on this bucket
of bolts for the first time!

Eat my dust, Bill Gates!

Israel

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                         or over the web



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Phil Dickinson | 3 Sep 11:45 2005
Picon

Re: Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

Sorry Howard, I don't use that emulator either.

Phil

On 9/3/05, Howard Dean <hmd929-yBeKhBN/0LDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi Phil,
 
On the 3270 emulator supplied with the Turnkey-MVS system, how do you find out which PC keyboard key
is PA1? Is there a keyboard map facility somewhere?
 
 
Howard
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [turnkey-mvs] Re: Failing during setup of turnkey system

ATTN and SYSREQ only have meaning in SNA.
 
For a similar function to ATTN in a non-SNA environment try PA1 (you may need to press RESET first).
 
SYSREQ doesn't make sense in a non-SNA environment.
 
ATTN sends a SNA SIGNAL to request change direction, if I remember correctly.
SYSREQ switches the presentation space between the LU-LU session and the LU-SSCP session.
 
You don't need to know that :-)

Phil.
 
On 9/1/05, psysltd-NBZbi/Fi3aAqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org < psysltd-NBZbi/Fi3aAqcZcGjlUOXw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi Peter,

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:29:33 -0000, "Peter J Farley III"
< pjfarley3-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> said:
> --- In turnkey-mvs-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org, psysltd <at> m... wrote:
> <Snipped>
> > But now (as before) I'm confused- do I have to do something
> > further? Was this the starter system, or is this the "final"
> > system.  I saw some pages in the cookbook which talk about running
> > the starter setup first. I ran the ins0010.bat file but now I'm
> > thinking maybe it was for nothing since I had the starter system
> > running already?
>
> OK, if you ran ins0010.bat, you pretty well messed up the Turnkey
> system.  It reinitializes and loads MVSRES (among other DASD
> volumes) to MVS STARTER SYTEM state, not TK3 final state.

That's what I was afraid of, but I'm still able to ipl 148 and bring up
the system, and sign on to TSO...  The ins0010.bat did get moved to the
\done directory, so for sure it did its thing.  I guess I'll leave
things alone unless something just doesn't work anymore.

> The TK3 setup script gives you a running system, ready to start
> mainframe work, with lots of goodies already added for you to play
> with.

I started out on MFT but I was punching cards on 029s and 129s back
then.  (How can we ever go back to line-editor mode?!)  When I typed
"ISPF" after the TSO logon and it said "command not found," I broke out
in a panic ;-)

Does anybody have a full-screen editor/browser running?  How do you view
dumps?  This is a wierd reverse learning curve!  I can't remember how I
used to work on this stuff!

> The "insnnnn" scripts are for (re)creating a working TK3
> system starting from the bare MVS 3.8J "starter packs" and running a
> full SYSGEN process (a very long and involved process).  Some folks
> like to begin at the beginning to see how it was done.  Others just
> want to use the system to do other things.  YMMV.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was never a sysprog so I'll leave that
part to Volker and you other professional guys :-)

> >
> > 1) TSO userid HERC02 seems to want a password- I couldn't find
> > what it was.
>
> Once you have TK3 installed again and started up, you can use the
> cookbook instructions on adding/changing/listing users.  IIRC, the
> LIST subcommand can tell you all about all of the useried's that are
> defined to the system, including passwords.
>
> Use HERC01 (no password) to do such things.

I was confused only because HERC01 didn't need a password, but HERC02
did.  I didn't see any discussion about the passwords on the cookbook
pages.  Howard sent me the details on finding the info.

>
> > 2) What is the break key from Vista?  ATTN?  SYSREQ?  something
> > else?  I got into a loop a couple of times in TSO with trying to
> > break out of a prompt and I couldn't do it.
>
> Umm-m-m, in the Vista documentation perhaps?  I don't use that
> emulator so I haven't a clue where ATTN or SYSREQ are defined.

No, my question was on which control key MVS wants...based on what
Vista's terminology is.

I'm just getting "X SYSTEM" on TSO when I try ATTN, SYSREQ, etc.

>
> As for TSO (TK3 or otherwise), I *thought* that ATTN would get you
> out of pretty much any command that isn't coded to ignore it.  If
> not, tell us what you can't get out of, there's always a possibility
> there is a bug somewhere... :)

If I can recreate the scenario, I'll let you know.

>
> HTH
>
> Peter

Thanks very much to you and all of the guys who have been helping me,
and to the guys who worked on all this stuff to make it available.  It's
really a thrill to have a real operating system running on this bucket
of bolts for the first time!

Eat my dust, Bill Gates!

Israel

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Howard Dean | 3 Sep 11:57 2005
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Unable to drain RDR1 at shutdown

I installed the MVS Turnkey System and it works great! However, when I shut down the system, I cannot stop
JES2 (System Draining) because RDR1 (device 00C) will
not drain.  I remember in my systems programmer days
there was a way to force drain a JES2 device. $CRDR1
will not work, nor will $PRDR1.  Also, I though there was
a way for FORCE a unit offline. I may not be entering the
command correctly, but it appears not to work in this
version of MVS. Any suggestions?
 
 
Howard

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