masukomi | 1 Jul 19:12 2004

Re: Smart Client using Swixml

XUL is pretty much a catch all term for anything that converts XML into 
GUI. It stands for XML User-Interface Language. I think Mozilla coined 
the term for their XUL implementation but it is applied to other 
toolkits like SwiXml. SwiXml does NOT have anything to do with Mozilla.

SwiXml does conform to a standard schema but it's the SwiXml schema.

HTML to XML for SwiXml can be done with XSLT if the original HTML is 
actually XHTML. If it isn't there are a few tools available to convert 
standard HTML to XHTML.

You can bind custom objects to tags with custom attributes in SwiXml if 
you want. It's not that hard.

Wolf is still working on Franklin the visual interface for building 
SwiXml apps but it has not been released.
http://www.carlsbadcubes.com/franklin/

I have experiences making a number of smart clients with SwiXml and am 
available for on or off site training, consulting, and mentoring  in 
SwiXml. I'm also familiar with XSLT and dynamically generating Swing 
guis with user or instance specific elements on the fly by combining 
SwiXml and Velocity or other template engines.

Please call me at 617-308-9130 or see http://www.masukomi.org for 
details.

-Kate Rhodes
Open source consultant & Java developer
http://www.masukomi.org
(Continue reading)

Bharat Panchal | 5 Jul 07:00 2004

When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

Hi,

I am going to develope some information kind of system in Java, which will
have screens like List records (may be in tabular format), add new record,
edit record, delete record, tree for selecting particular entity. Its a full
fledge client server application.

I am new to Thinlet and SwiXML and have looked at both and have following
question.

Thinlet Questions:
- Accroding to thinlet.dtd, you can not put button/checkbox in a table cell.
So how to display a GUI that displays records as well as provide facility
for editing or deleting it?
- Can I write only one xml for list, add, edit, delete functionaly?

SwiXML Questions:
- We have to write model for JTable and JTree ourselves. So what is the
advantage of using table and tree in SwiXML?

Again I am new to this technology, so please excuse me if I am wrong
anywhere.
Can you please answer above questions and suggest when to use Thinlet and
SwiXML?
It will be a great help to me.

Thank you very much.

Bharat Panchal
Sr.Engineer (Software)
(Continue reading)

masukomi | 6 Jul 00:24 2004

Re: When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

> Thinlet Questions:
> - Accroding to thinlet.dtd, you can not put button/checkbox in a table 
> cell.
> So how to display a GUI that displays records as well as provide 
> facility
> for editing or deleting it?

you make a button elsewhere then have it call a script that looks at 
the selected item in your table and through some code you've developed 
(usually some hash lookup with the text in the cells as the keys) 
figures out what Java object that corresponds to. Then you do something 
with it.

> - Can I write only one xml for list, add, edit, delete functionaly?

umm... can you rephrase the question?

>
> SwiXML Questions:
> - We have to write model for JTable and JTree ourselves. So what is the
> advantage of using table and tree in SwiXML?

you can put a button / checkbox in a table cell. ;)
Seriously thought. With thinlet you're limited to text in your tables. 
With SwiXml you can put practically any Swing object in there.

> Again I am new to this technology, so please excuse me if I am wrong
> anywhere.
> Can you please answer above questions and suggest when to use Thinlet 
> and
(Continue reading)

Bharat Panchal | 6 Jul 06:14 2004

RE: When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

Thank you very much Kate.
Now I am sure that I am not going to use Thinlet.
But still I have one question in my mind that why people are using SwiXML
though we have to write modelling class seperately for table, tree.

Is it worth to use SwiXML for Client-Server application(that includes add,
edit, delete, list functionalities) having rich GUI?

Thanks again,
Bharat Panchal

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum-bounces <at> carlsbadcubes.com
[mailto:Forum-bounces <at> carlsbadcubes.com]On Behalf Of masukomi
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 3:54 AM
To: List for Users of Carlsbad Cubes' Technologies and Products
Subject: Re: [Forum] When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

> Thinlet Questions:
> - Accroding to thinlet.dtd, you can not put button/checkbox in a table
> cell.
> So how to display a GUI that displays records as well as provide
> facility
> for editing or deleting it?

you make a button elsewhere then have it call a script that looks at
the selected item in your table and through some code you've developed
(usually some hash lookup with the text in the cells as the keys)
figures out what Java object that corresponds to. Then you do something
with it.
(Continue reading)

f.meissner | 6 Jul 10:34 2004
Picon

RE: When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

List for Users of Carlsbad Cubes' Technologies and Products schrieb am 06.07.04 08:59:11:
> 
> Thank you very much Kate.
> Now I am sure that I am not going to use Thinlet.
> But still I have one question in my mind that why people are using SwiXML
> though we have to write modelling class seperately for table, tree.
> 
> Is it worth to use SwiXML for Client-Server application(that includes add,
> edit, delete, list functionalities) having rich GUI?

Hello Bharat,

I imagine you like to have add, edit, delete, list functionalities in e.g. tables,
trees and the like. For this, Swing provides the MVC architecture. As you
noticed, you have to write that "M" part yourself, SwixMl does not help you
there. Furthermore, the "C" part lies also upon yourself. The thing SwixMl is
good at and helps you a great bunch is the "V" part.

I wrote some applictions with the functionalities you mentioned and SwixMl
helped me a lot: to separate responsibilities, for more flexibility and the like.
E.g. it is not that important if you have a JLabel or a JTextField to contain a
textual description of some sort. But without SwixMl, you have to import
the one or the other, have a variable/attribute created, have to take care
of I18N yourself (no, user-readable text in the code is not an option) and
the like. Additionally, the cycle of GUI creation and layout finetuning is
much slower with a real application: suppose you design a dialog which
is quite long to go to in your app. Either you code some nasty shortcut or
you have to go the long way all over again until you are pleased with the
layout. WIth SwixMl you just render the dialog-XML file in a test program
all over again.
(Continue reading)

masukomi | 6 Jul 18:33 2004

Re: When to use Thinlet/SwiXML


On Jul 6, 2004, at 12:14 AM, Bharat Panchal wrote:

> Is it worth to use SwiXML for Client-Server application(that includes 
> add,
> edit, delete, list functionalities) having rich GUI?

I don't really see how those functionalities or the fact that it is a 
client-server app have any bearing on SwiXml. The only thing there that 
really has anything to do with it is "having rich GUI". If you want a 
rich GUI and you want it in Swing then Yes SwiXml would be a good 
choice.  But as far as SwiXml goes it really doesn't matter *what* 
you're doing with the gui or how it's connecting.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm attacking, what I'm trying to do is point 
out that non-gui issues are being used to determine a gui toolkit. If 
you want to determine if SwiXml is right for you then set aside all the 
questions that have nothing to do with using GUIs or building GUIs. 
What's left are the things that fall into SwiXml's domain.

mozilla is a client server app... ATM's are client server apps... 
practically everything is a client server app these days and yet they 
have a huge variety of Interface needs.  What are your interface needs 
and are they things that Swing is well suited to handling? If so then 
SwiXml would probably be a good choice because it makes all Swing 
development easier.

-Kate Rhodes
Open source consultant & Java developer
http://www.masukomi.org
(Continue reading)

Bharat Panchal | 7 Jul 05:43 2004

RE: When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

Thanks Frank and Kate.

Now I got the idea.
I want rich GUI in Swing and now sure that SwiXML can do all what I want.
I just need to handle about Model and Constoller. SwiXML will manage the
views.
I'll be using SwiXML and it looks promising.

Thanks for all your help and quick reply.

Bharat

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum-bounces <at> carlsbadcubes.com
[mailto:Forum-bounces <at> carlsbadcubes.com]On Behalf Of masukomi
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:04 PM
To: List for Users of Carlsbad Cubes' Technologies and Products
Subject: Re: [Forum] When to use Thinlet/SwiXML

On Jul 6, 2004, at 12:14 AM, Bharat Panchal wrote:

> Is it worth to use SwiXML for Client-Server application(that includes
> add,
> edit, delete, list functionalities) having rich GUI?

I don't really see how those functionalities or the fact that it is a
client-server app have any bearing on SwiXml. The only thing there that
really has anything to do with it is "having rich GUI". If you want a
rich GUI and you want it in Swing then Yes SwiXml would be a good
choice.  But as far as SwiXml goes it really doesn't matter *what*
(Continue reading)

tom.woiccak | 7 Jul 15:38 2004

RE: When to use Thinlet/SwiXML


I am also new to Swing but I have been following SwiXml for quite a while.
I need to create a client that supports a multiple document interface and
menus.  I really like SwiXml for the View in MVC and i plan to use IBATIS's
SQLMap for the Model, but I don't know what to use for the Controller.  Can
anyone provide some insight as to how you've developed the event controller
for MDI applications?  Is there an open source event framework that i could
leverage?  Or should I just be coding it myself?  Lastly, if I am coding it
myself, do I manage aplication events separately from window events or just
use one application event queue?

TIA,
Tom

|---------+------------------------------->
|         |           "Bharat Panchal"    |
|         |           <bharat.panchal <at> patn|
|         |           i.com>              |
|         |           Sent by:            |
|         |           Forum-bounces <at> carlsb|
|         |           adcubes.com         |
|         |                               |
|         |                               |
|         |           07/06/2004 11:43 PM |
|         |           Please respond to   |
|         |           List for Users of   |
|         |           Carlsbad Cubes'     |
|         |           Technologies and    |
|         |           Products            |
|         |                               |
(Continue reading)

Wolf Paulus | 7 Jul 21:09 2004

Oracle Mag. features XUL, Thinlet, Theodore, etc.

The Developer Trends section in the current issue of ORACLE Magazine 
features an article about Rich Internet Clients.
http://otn.oracle.com/oramag/oracle/04-jul/o44dev_trends.html

While it's not going into details much, it's still worth reading since 
important technologies and techniques are covered (i.e. XUL, Thinlet, 
Theodore, Macr FLEX, Web Start, Oracle Forms).

--
Wolf Paulus
wolf <at> carlsbadcubes.com

C a r l s b a d  C u b e s
Dedicated to Excellence
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Tan Chi Fu | 8 Jul 02:55 2004

Oracle Mag. features XUL, Thinlet, Theodore, etc.

Thank you for pointing to this article. I’m actually evaluating RIA or ULC (Ultra Light Client) frameworks and try to decide which to use for our new product development. Most of them (RIAs) are costly except for the XUL projects, which are free. But one of the requirements for me is the minimum or no code downloaded to the client side. I’ve looked briefly on Canoo’s ULC and Nexaweb’s Client, they seem to be what I want. So my question here is, are there any XUL packages provide similar functionality as those of commercial products? I.e. the Model and Controller parts are executed at the Server side? Sorry if my question doesn’t sound valid to you, I’m really new in this area and try to learn these new technologies that’s applicable to me.

 

tfu

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