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forster | 1 Sep 2010 01:07
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Re: [DESIGN] Etoys 4.1

Sugar's autosave can be a problem in other Activities too.
Create a program in Pippy, then look at one of the examples. All your work will be overwritten. There is
nothing you can do to prevent this, not even a panic powerdown. I have viewed a favourite holiday photo in
Browse, then used that Browse session to surf the net, overwriting that photo (can't replicate that now OS373pyg).

I would be happy to have a global setting in control panel for all Activities for autosave vs a dialogue which
gave a choice on exit. Would that break existing Activities?

Though there is a case for autosave for raw beginners, its contrary to Sugar's goal of empowering users to
give them no control of when saving occurs.

Tony

> On 31.08.2010, at 20:07, Gary Martin wrote:
> 
> > Hi Vert,
> > 
> > On 30 Aug 2010, at 10:50, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> > 
> >> This is the first beta release of Etoys 4.1.
> >> 
> >> The biggest change is that stopping the Etoys activity will no longer save to the Journal. To save, you
will have to press the keep button. The octagonal stop button is replaced by a circular exit button to
indicate the new behavior. It puts up a warning before actually quitting.
> > 
> > :-(( but I'm sure this was a really tough decision to make.
> > 
> > Do you have a screen shot of the new UI and warning dialogue that I can easily take a look at?
> > 
> > My first gut reaction (not having seen it yet) is that the Keep button is a real problem generally (and
(Continue reading)

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Walter Bender | 1 Sep 2010 01:49
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Re: [DESIGN] Etoys 4.1

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:07 PM,  <forster <at> ozonline.com.au> wrote:
> Sugar's autosave can be a problem in other Activities too.
> Create a program in Pippy, then look at one of the examples. All your work will be overwritten. There is
nothing you can do to prevent this, not even a panic powerdown. I have viewed a favourite holiday photo in
Browse, then used that Browse session to surf the net, overwriting that photo (can't replicate that now OS373pyg).
>
> I would be happy to have a global setting in control panel for all Activities for autosave vs a dialogue
which gave a choice on exit. Would that break existing Activities?
>
> Though there is a case for autosave for raw beginners, its contrary to Sugar's goal of empowering users to
give them no control of when saving occurs.
>
> Tony
>
>
>> On 31.08.2010, at 20:07, Gary Martin wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Vert,
>> >
>> > On 30 Aug 2010, at 10:50, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>> >
>> >> This is the first beta release of Etoys 4.1.
>> >>
>> >> The biggest change is that stopping the Etoys activity will no longer save to the Journal. To save, you
will have to press the keep button. The octagonal stop button is replaced by a circular exit button to
indicate the new behavior. It puts up a warning before actually quitting.
>> >
>> > :-(( but I'm sure this was a really tough decision to make.
>> >
>> > Do you have a screen shot of the new UI and warning dialogue that I can easily take a look at?
(Continue reading)

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James Cameron | 1 Sep 2010 01:49
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Re: slow animation performance when moving the mouse

I've not looked at your video or source, but there is a substantial
difference in context switching between a call to get_pointer versus
using motion_notify_event.

get_pointer should be one round trip to the X server.  The application
will only execute when it wants to.

motion_notify_event is a stream of events from the X server.  When using
that, every move of the mouse results in execution of the application.

(If the application lags behind the event stream, e.g. by not processing
the whole stream before doing the next graphics operation, then some
interesting symptoms result.)

--

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Frederick Grose | 1 Sep 2010 02:54
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Re: [DESIGN] Etoys 4.1

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:07 PM, <forster <at> ozonline.com.au> wrote:
Sugar's autosave can be a problem in other Activities too.
Create a program in Pippy, then look at one of the examples. All your work will be overwritten. There is nothing you can do to prevent this, not even a panic powerdown.

In an activity like this, having the capability for multiple, independent views would be helpful.  See this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/sugar-devel <at> lists.sugarlabs.org/msg15306.html
 
I have viewed a favourite holiday photo in Browse, then used that Browse session to surf the net, overwriting that photo

This sounds like a bug.  But having tabs available would have probably avoided the loss.

       --Fred
 
(can't replicate that now OS373pyg).

{...} 
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S Page | 1 Sep 2010 03:59
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wanting to try recent Sugar, problems

I have an XO-1 running OLPC's build os852 (10.1.2 release candidate
that incorporates Sugar 0.84.16) and a desktop PC running Kubuntu
Lucid 10.04.

I wanted to see how the library and Browse work in recent Sugar. I
downloaded the weekly testing soas-i386-20100826.15.iso from
<http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Beta>

* I tried booting a Fedora VirtualBox machine from this .iso. After
network manager eth0 configuration messages the screen stays black for
hours.  garycmartin on IRC had the same experience, thought it might
be a gfx issue between Fedora and VirtualBox.

* Can an XO-1 boot from this .iso if I turn it into a Live USB?
Supposedly the F13 glibc incompatibility with Geode was fixed  in July
( <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=579838> -- great stuff
from "Dont Close Unfixed Bugs" who must be John Gilmore in a mask ;-)
).

* I tried to get Sugar jhbuild to work on Kubuntu several months ago,
I never succeeded and it left me with package incompatibility
difficulties.

Any suggestions?  Ideally my PC environment would continue running and
I don't lose my OLPC build.

Thanks,
--
=S Page
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Tomeu Vizoso | 1 Sep 2010 09:42
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Re: loading ttf fonts in a sugar activity

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 21:20, Erik Blankinship <erikb <at> mediamods.com> wrote:
> I am wondering if there is a sugar activity which loads in custom ttf fonts?
> The almanac does not provide an example
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac/Pango#How_do_I_control_the_appearance_of_fonts_on_a_Pango_layout.3F
> ...but a google search suggests it should be possible with pango.  Does
> anyone have any experience with embedding fonts into a sugar activity?  I
> would be happy to write it up into the almanac for others benefit once I
> figure it out.

Doesn't seem to be possible to load a bundled font with pango at this
moment: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347237

But this hack seems to work, though you are not using Pango and you
may miss some of its most advanced features:
http://cairographics.org/freetypepython/

Regards,

Tomeu

> _______________________________________________
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> Sugar-devel <at> lists.sugarlabs.org
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Tomeu Vizoso | 1 Sep 2010 09:58
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Re: code for register widget

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 03:11, Luke Faraone <luke <at> faraone.cc> wrote:
> On 08/28/2010 05:02 AM, usr <at> dev.seeta.in wrote:
>> Ref to LP bug #617813:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar-0.88/+bug/617813
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am working on this bug, and I want to go through the code for register
>> widget and the processes it carries out with the networking interface
>> also.
>> But after going through a lot of files in sugar-0.88 package source, I
>> wasn't able to get near to it.
>>
>> It would be great if somebody can provide pointers regarding it.

Hi Dipankar,

whenever I want to find out which code is related to a string
displayed in the UI, I grep the relevant modules for that string in
this way:

$ cd /opt/sugar-jhbuild/source/sugar
$ git grep Register

Hope that helps,

Tomeu

>>
>> Regards,
>> Dipankar
>>
>>
>
> I haven't the faintest idea.
>
> This would probably be a good question to ask on the sugar-devel mailing
> list. CCing them on this reply.
>
> --
> ╒═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╕
> │Luke Faraone                          ╭Debian / Ubuntu Developer╮│
> │http://luke.faraone.cc                ╰Sugar Labs, Systems Admin╯│
> │PGP: 5189 2A7D 16D0 49BB 046B  DC77 9732 5DD8 F9FD D506          │
> ╘═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╛
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel <at> lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
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Asiri Gunarathna | 1 Sep 2010 10:10
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Sugarbot on OLPC Sugarlabs

Hi all,

We are trying to run Sugarbot on OLPC Sugarlabs. we use to refer "sugarbot OLPC Sugar GUI automation project" (http://code.google.com/p/sugarbot/wiki/RunningSugarbot), but I cannot install Sugarbot on OLPC.reason the instructions provided by the above site , Is not clear enough for me.

I use olpc xo 1.5 OS 851 firmware q3a50, please give necessary  advice to install Sugarbot.

Looking forward to hear from you.

Thanks,
Regards,
Asiri.


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Tomeu Vizoso | 1 Sep 2010 11:24
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Re: screenreader for sugar

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 14:10, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu <at> sugarlabs.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 14:08, Esteban Arias <earias <at> plan.ceibal.edu.uy> wrote:
>> hi,
>> we can colaborate with this proyect.
>
> Excelent, have you tried already orca with Sugar? And with GNOME?

I would say that the next step is for someone who knows how orca is
used to give it a try and file tickets for the biggest issues. Not
sure we can make much more until then.

Regards,

Tomeu

> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
>> 2010/8/20 Gonzalo Odiard <godiard <at> gmail.com>
>>>
>>> In this thread
>>> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/olpc-sur/2010-April/005829.html there are
>>> people interested.
>>> You can contact Esteban Arias also
>>> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/olpc-uruguay/2010-February/001653.html
>>>
>>> Gonzalo
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu <at> sugarlabs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 12:53, Gonzalo Odiard <godiard <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Yes, there are interest in La Rioja, Argentina. In olpc-sur there are
>>>> > request for this.
>>>>
>>>> Great, do we have people there who can try things out and help decide
>>>> what remains to be done?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Tomeu
>>>>
>>>> > Gonzalo
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu <at> sugarlabs.org>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> is there any interest in a deployment somewhere for a screenreader
>>>> >> that allows blind people use the Sugar UI when paired with keyboard
>>>> >> navigation?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think most of the pieces are there, but without knowing how it could
>>>> >> be used I cannot really test.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Regards,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tomeu
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>>> >> Sugar-devel <at> lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gonzalo Odiard
>>> Responsable de Desarrollo (pasando la antorcha...)
>>> Sistemas Australes
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> Sugar-devel <at> lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>     Esteban Arias
>>     Investigación y Desarrollo - Plan Ceibal
>>     Avda. Italia 6201
>>     Montevideo - Uruguay.
>>     Tel.: 601.57.73 Interno 2228
>>     E-mail : earias <at> plan.ceibal.edu.uy
>>
>>
>
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Yioryos Asprobounitis | 1 Sep 2010 11:48
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Re: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 22, Issue 97 (Patch review/Community et al.)

--- On Tue, 8/31/10, sugar-devel-request <at> lists.sugarlabs.org
<sugar-devel-request <at> lists.sugarlabs.org> wrote:

>    3. Community (was: Re:  Bug tracking
> Vs Patch review) (Sascha Silbe)

>    5. Re: Community (was: Re: Bug tracking
> Vs Patch review)
>       (Tomeu Vizoso)

I'm not a sugarlabs member but I read the list and a felt I should "pollute" it with my 2 cents on this issue.

<2cents>

This is a very interesting discussion, but I think it may be missing the point (and is turning ugly). 
FOSS is big enough and everyone can find a big number of successful, and probably a bigger number of failed,
projects that follow one or the other patch submission process or more general, organizational
structure. 
What this tell us is that there is not only one "best practice" and more important that the best practice for a
given project is "the one that works".

The project is what it is, the people are who they are,  the major players are given to a large extend and the
others are coming and going according to what they see from outside and experience from inside. 
"Personal exchanges" may be unavoidable but not necessarily helpful if they are not starting from a common ground.
So the first  point to agree on is  if/how "things work".  The answer to this question is the basis for any
further discussion. If they are we "ok" then we may discuss  fine tuning the current processes much more
efficiently. If they are not, then the real issue is how to overhaul the system and specific problems are
blown out of proportion. 

"Works" is a very vague term of course, and in this mail exchange we see individual opinions for both.
However, singled out cases may simply be just that and not reflect the bulk of the cases eg reality. 
Specific questions, and more important some "metrics" may clarify  a bit "how are we doing". For example: 
- Does the code quality improves with every consecutive release (check for features, code efficiency, bug
squashed, tickets/release, etc)?
- Are we free of regressions?
- Is our user base increased because of our new releases (query activity downloads for Sugar version)?
- Are we (almost) free of long standing issues and no one appears to be willing to tackle them (check
bugtracker for stale tickets)?   
- Did the number of people involved and contributing, increased (check git for new and inactive projects
with a  monthly window)? 
- Can this be attributed to our current process and organizational scheme, to any extend (text main mailing list?)?
- Did developers left the organization with the  usual or lower rate for FOSS projects (query devel
subscribers, list/git contributors on a monthly basis. Ask/get dada from other similar size  projects)? 
- Is our membership growing (this should wait till the registration deadline)?
- Do we have a strong positive feedback from other distro developers and packagers (release manager? could
provide data)?
- Do we have a strong positive feedback from our users (XYZ? should provide info - BTW why there is not any
"Sugar Forum"?)?
- And for the "igniting" issue: Is the average time for patch acceptance/rejection lower or equal to other
similar (in size) projects (check track/list/git and compare)? 

A majority of "yes" in these questions means that things "work" and we should  just try to improve if needed
A majority of "no" means things should change.  Try alternatives and keep monitoring trends. Reevaluate as needed.

I do not know any of the answers to these (or other relevant) questions but I hope is "yes". The subscribers of
this list should know though. They should also know the answer to probably the most important question "am
I happy with this project"?

Maybe a relevant questionnaire could be included in the upcoming SLOB election,  so the new SLOB can
consider it in due time.
I think that is important to know what the contributing volunteers think and feel about  the organization
and not consider their participation or not as their only (and ultimate) "vote". "My way or the highway"
works when you put the money, you already are a very successful project or you have strong approval. Is
important to know if the 3rd at least is true.
A ballot approach will (hopefully) also avoid heated exchanges and should not "put on the spot" anyone. 

</2cents>
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Gmane