headers
navlist | 1 Sep 2002 16:25
Picon
Favicon

Re: category

> navlist <at> centrum.cz writes:
> > Due time, I had same problems with mysql - it is web 
application
> > (because I use it only in this way) or data/mysql (which I
> > choosed after some time) ? Where should X and WindowMaker 
go ? I
> > created gui category.
> 
> As the /package page states, the reason for classifying 
packages is simply
> to keep the directory from getting too big.  With that in mind, 
why agonize
> over how to classify packages when it has already been done?  
For example,
> Debian GNU/Linux and FreeBSD already have a huge selection of 
packages that
> are classified by category:
> 
> http://packages.debian.org/stable/
> http://www.freebsd.org/ports/
> 
> The FreeBSD ports categorization scheme seems very close to 
what is trying
> to be achieved with the /package categorization.
> 
> --
But I am, for example, using linuxfromscratch, where catogories 
aren't. What I was talking about is, that I may put windowmaker 
in gui, but somebody other put it into sys. And now, if third 
package cannot exactly say, where it should look for libwraster
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 835 comments |
headers
Stefan Karrmann | 1 Sep 2002 23:54
Picon

Re: category

Lang Martin (Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 04:01:48PM -0400):
> There is also an additional risk -- getting a bad headache. I like the
> /package categories (I may be the only person on this list who does),
> but I think that one meaningful (as much as possible) category should
> be selected by the author of the package (with help from Prof.
> Berstein, of course).
> 
> By all means, let's add helpful categories -- their definitions can't
> be precise, but they can be helpful semantic clues that make a package
> name more meaningful (to humans). That's a good thing, I think.

I agree. But one of my questions is still open, how to package and
_register_ GNU (FSF, BSD, etc.) software? There exist competing
implementations of the same commands with (tiny) differences. Should
we use virtual packages (like vi for vim for gnu-vim, foo-vim with
vi-docvirtual for its specification) which defines the gcd?

Will Prof. Bernstein refuse all packages/commands which implement existing
commands? Then someone could set up a registry for such commands or even
for a new /pkg!
But I would prefer an `official' way to import existing commands into /package
to profite from the simplicity of the package and version managment.

--

-- 
Stefan Karrmann
Permalink | Reply | 2 comments |
headers
Charles Cazabon | 1 Sep 2002 22:11
Picon

Re: category

Stefan Karrmann <sk <at> mathematik.uni-ulm.de> wrote:
> 
> I agree. But one of my questions is still open, how to package and
> _register_ GNU (FSF, BSD, etc.) software?

Surely this question could only matter to the official maintainers of those
GNU packages?  I mean, I wouldn't want you deciding how /my/ software should
fit into djb's /package/ hierarchy.

Charles
--

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon                          <package <at> discworld.dyndns.org>
GPL'ed software available at:     http://www.qcc.ca/~charlesc/software/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
navlist | 2 Sep 2002 18:56
Picon
Favicon

Re: category

> Od: Charles Cazabon <package <at> discworld.dyndns.org>
> Komu: package <at> list.cr.yp.to
> CC: 
> Datum: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:11:43 -0600
> Předmět: Re: category
>
> I mean, I wouldn't want you deciding how /my/ software should
> fit into djb's /package/ hierarchy.
> 
> Charles
IMHO. I think, that author should be the first person, who will 
decide, where the package should come and only in case of 
concurency with other package or different meaning of category 
than usualy it may be subject of change (as Dan wrote: "If I 
don't like your name for some reason, I'll suggest an acceptable 
replacement name. " - http://cr.yp.to/slashpackage/names.html)
Because if I choose category for your package, somebody other may 
think something other - and we are back in /usr/bin.

> Od: Stefan Karrmann <sk <at> mathematik.uni-ulm.de>
> Komu: package <at> list.cr.yp.to
> There exist competing implementations of the same commands with 
(tiny) differences. Should we use virtual packages (like vi for 
vim for gnu-vim, foo-vim with vi-docvirtual for its 
specification) which defines the gcd?
I think, that all vims should be in their own directory 
(/package/edit/vi-x.y, vim-6.1, vim-virt-x-y,...) and you symlink 
your favorite (or currently using) to /package/edit/vim. Another 
way is to symlink other competitors under different names 
(vi,vim,vimvir,...) into /package/edit/vim/bin - sou you can use
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Len Budney | 2 Sep 2002 23:46
Picon
Favicon

Re: category

On Sun, 2002-09-01 at 10:25, navlist <at> centrum.cz wrote:
>
> There is not simply and allways_right way to specify category - 
> unless author says where it is. But I have never seen note about 
> slashpackage on sites like php.net.

True. But the whole point is for people to *volunteer* to participate in
slash-package. Dan believes in free markets, and is attempting to
advance a free-market solution--i.e., one which people adopt because
they see benefits for themselves. He hasn't shown any interest in making
people participate, and is unlikely to allow you to make decisions for
the authors.

Indeed, he is already on record stating that he'd rather see Apache work
THE SAME on every platform, than see it work LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE on
some individual platform. It's an easy corollary that Dan isn't
interested in supporting "linuxfromscratch" in which other people's
software is shoehorned into your--or even his--admin structure.

Better to start urging the folks at php.net to adopt slashpackage, than
vice versa.

--Len.
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Paul Jarc | 3 Sep 2002 18:53
Picon

Re: category

<navlist <at> centrum.cz> wrote:
>> As the /package page states, the reason for classifying packages is
>> simply to keep the directory from getting too big.  With that in
>> mind, why agonize over how to classify packages when it has already
>> been done?  For example, Debian GNU/Linux and FreeBSD already have
>> a huge selection of packages that are classified by category:
>
> But I am, for example, using linuxfromscratch, where catogories
> aren't.

That's irrelevant.  The point above was that *any* already-implemented
categorization could be used for slashpackage.  Then anyone using
slashpackage would get that categorization scheme, even if the rest of
their system didn't use it.

> What I was talking about is, that I may put windowmaker in gui, but
> somebody other put it into sys. And now, if third package cannot
> exactly say, where it should look for libwraster library (provided
> by windowmaker).

This is why package paths should be registered by the package
maintainers.  Do not expect to get the full benefits of slashpackage
if you ignore the global registry.

> But I have never seen note about slashpackage on sites like php.net.

You could encourage them to participate by registering a name for PHP.

> Btw. why is not qmail in /package/mail/qmail ?
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Paul Jarc | 3 Sep 2002 19:08
Picon

Re: category

Stefan Karrmann <sk <at> mathematik.uni-ulm.de> wrote:
> But one of my questions is still open, how to package and _register_
> GNU (FSF, BSD, etc.) software?

For my slashpackage-foreign project, I have registered misc/spf.
Foreign packages will be installed inside there.  Commands are not
registered at all.  Anyone who wants "ed" to refer to
/package/misc/spf/ed/bin/ed can create a symlink in /command to
express that.  I will provide tools to ease the maintainance of
symlinks in /command.

This is a greedy, impatient solution, though.  It's better to get the
package maintainers themselves to participate.  (After that point,
they will still have to worry about conlicts with traditional command
names, but I think tools like the ones I'm working on will be
sufficient to deal with that.)  That will be an easier sell after our
build systems are more mature.  spf may be useful as a proof of
concept to help convince anyone who doubts that such a system can
work; my systems are now entirely built from source, and entirely
installed in package-specific directories in /package - even glibc.

$ ls -l /bin /sbin /lib /usr
ls: /lib: No such file or directory
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     default         7 Aug 19 17:48 /bin -> command
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     default         7 Aug 19 18:44 /sbin -> command
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     default         1 Aug 19 19:36 /usr -> .

There are still a few parts that need to be polished and published,
though, so don't worry if what you see on my web site doesn't look
complete yet.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Laurent G. Bercot | 4 Sep 2002 07:50
Favicon

Registration request

package: prog/superstrip
containing the command: superstrip

 <URL: http://www.skarnet.org/software/superstrip/ >

 superstrip is an advanced "strip" command designed to squeeze the most
possible bytes out of statically linked ELF executables.

--

-- 
 Ska
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Stefan Karrmann | 2 Sep 2002 00:11
Picon

Re: category

navlist <at> centrum.cz (Sun, Sep 01, 2002 at 04:25:24PM +0200):
> > navlist <at> centrum.cz writes:
> > > Due time, I had same problems with mysql - it is web 
> application
> > > (because I use it only in this way) or data/mysql (which I
> > > choosed after some time) ? Where should X and WindowMaker 
> go ? I
> > > created gui category.
> [...] What I was talking about is, that I may put windowmaker 
> in gui, but somebody other put it into sys. And now, if third 
> package cannot exactly say, where it should look for libwraster 
> library (provided by windowmaker).

You should _register_ windowmaker as gui/windowmaker _or_ use it as
host/localhost/gui/windowmaker. And the other one may use
host/localhost/sys/windowmaker, but this is local packages which does
not have a _global_ name!
> There is not simply and allways_right way to specify category - 
> unless author says where it is. But I have never seen note about 
> slashpackage on sites like php.net.

Well /package is newer than php.net AFAIK.

As long as the original author does not support /package, I suggest
the usage of prefixes and suffixes, e.g. use
gui/ORIGINALAUTHOR-windowmaker-installer for the implementation,
gui/windowmaker for a virtual package,
gui/windowmaker-docvirtual for a description of the gcd of it.

If the original author starts to support /package the installer is
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 835 comments |
headers
Stefan Karrmann | 5 Sep 2002 23:21
Picon

Re: registration request

Paul Jarc (Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 02:41:05PM -0400):
> misc/spf
> commands: sp-foreign (moved from sptools, which I still haven't gotten
> around to packaging yet, so nothing will break.)
> I chose misc instead of admin because the foreign packages will also
> be installed here.  They're currently installed in host/localhost by
> default, which is obviously bad.

Is it really necessary to set up a second registry for packages?
Is /package incapable to integrate them?
Why do you not register all of them using a prefix scheme, like
CATEGORY/spf-PACKAGE ?

--

-- 
Stefan Karrmann
Permalink | Reply | 1 comment |

Gmane