don hardaway | 5 Jun 17:31 2008
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An important idea

I would like to see the Desktop group discuss the possibilities of Open Office working better with Google.  It would pretty much take the wind out of MS's sails with Live Office.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_google_should_embrace_openoffice

cheers,
don

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Scott Preece | 5 Jun 18:16 2008
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Re: An important idea

Um - wouldn't discussing anything in terms of "taking the wind out of MS's sails" violate the antitrust rules that allow groups like this to exist?

----- Original Message ----
From: don hardaway <don.hardaway-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: lf_desktop-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org; lf_desktop-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 10:31:46 AM
Subject: [Lf_desktop] An important idea

I would like to see the Desktop group discuss the possibilities of Open Office working better with Google.  It would pretty much take the wind out of MS's sails with Live Office.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_google_should_embrace_openoffice

cheers,
don

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donald_harbison | 5 Jun 19:18 2008
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Re: An important idea


Don,

We (OASIS ODF and OpenOffice.org/IBM Symphony community) have been working on interoperability for a while now. Google Docs, OpenOffice, Lotus Symphony, KOffice, etc. recognize the issues. There is more work to be done. To that end, we are working to create a new TC at OASIS focused on ODF Implementation, Interoperability and Conformance. Please consider joining and participating.

Rob Weir announced a new discussion list at OASIS this week, working with Mary McRae our OASIS manager.  You can find the open invitation here: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oiic-formation-discuss/200806/msg00001.html

Here's Rob's opening 'welcome' email sent on June 3rd:

 ==================
A quick note to say hello and welcome.   To those who don't know me, I'm Rob Weir from IBM.   I'm Co-Chair of the OASIS ODF TC.  

We're just getting started up on this TC formation discussion list.  Mary McRae sent out the Call for Participation last night to the OASIS members and the TC announcement list:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oiic-formation-discuss/200806/msg00001.html

I'm also forwarding the invite to other interested parties, the ODF Fellowship, the ODF Alliance, attendees of the ODF Interop Camp we had last year, etc.  

Please forward to invite to anyone else you might think would be interested.

Since the CFP just went out, I expect it will take a day or two for people to process their emails and sign up for the list.

So until then, it would be good if those of you who have joined already, would give a quick post to announce yourself, so we have a sense of when we have critical mass signed up.

Regards,

-Rob
___________________________

============================



Don Harbison
Program Director, IBM ODF Initiative
Business & Technical Strategy
IBM Software Group
tel:1-978-399-7018
Mobile: +1-978-761-0116
email: donald_harbison-r/Jw6+rmf7HQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org




From: "don hardaway" <don.hardaway-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: lf_desktop-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org, lf_desktop-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org
Date: 06/05/2008 11:51 AM
Subject: [Lf_desktop] An important idea




I would like to see the Desktop group discuss the possibilities of Open Office working better with Google.  It would pretty much take the wind out of MS's sails with Live Office.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_google_should_embrace_openoffice

cheers,
don

--
"Those who say it can't be done are usually interrupted by others doing it."--James Arthur Baldwin _______________________________________________
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robert_weir | 5 Jun 19:53 2008
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Re: An important idea


lf_desktop-bounces-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org wrote on 06/05/2008 11:31:46 AM:

> I would like to see the Desktop group discuss the possibilities of
> Open Office working better with Google.  It would pretty much take
> the wind out of MS's sails with Live Office.
>
> http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_google_should_embrace_openoffice
>

I haven't tried it, but there is this OOo extension:  http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/ooo2gd

-Rob

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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols | 5 Jun 20:08 2008

Re: An important idea


On Thu, 2008-06-05 at 13:53 -0400, robert_weir@... wrote:
> 
> I haven't tried it, but there is this OOo extension:
>  http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/ooo2gd 
> 
I've used it. It's a fine import/export document tool for OO.o, Zoho and
Google Docs, but that's all it is. Quite handy, but it doesn't integrate
the programs. It should, although I haven't tried it, work with Lotus
Symphony. 

Steven

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Editor-in-Chief                Practical Technology
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QOTD: "Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one."
--H.L. Mencken.
Denis Washington | 21 Jun 10:32 2008
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LSB Package API

Hi,

Some time ago, it was discussed on an LSB face-to-face meeting that an
API should be developed that allows ISVs to install sotware packages
which integrate into the package manager - the "Berlin Packaging API".
While the idea seemed to be well received, there didn't seem much
progress since then, except for a wiki page with a rundimentary proposal
[1]. Considering that third-party software installation is an undeniably
important weak spot of the Linux infrastructure, I found this was a
shame.

To reignite the the initiative, I decided to design and develop a
prototype implementation of the Berlin API, most creatively named the
"LSB Package API". It is designed as a simple D-Bus interface
accompanied with an XML-based package description format. A detailed
description and the source code can be found on this page:

 http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB_Package_API

The implementation currently supports integration into RPM and dpkg; due
to its modular nature, support for more package managers could be added
later on.

I hope this implementation will act as a starting point for resurrecting
the Berlin API process. Let us overcome the "Third-party software
installation on Linux sucks" problem and strive to a brave new world of
easily distributable Linux software! ;)

Best regards,
Denis Washington

[1] http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Berlin_Packaging_API

Yaakov Nemoy | 21 Jun 13:20 2008
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Re: LSB Package API

On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Denis Washington <dwashington <at> gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Some time ago, it was discussed on an LSB face-to-face meeting that an
> API should be developed that allows ISVs to install sotware packages
> which integrate into the package manager - the "Berlin Packaging API".
> While the idea seemed to be well received, there didn't seem much
> progress since then, except for a wiki page with a rundimentary proposal
> [1]. Considering that third-party software installation is an undeniably
> important weak spot of the Linux infrastructure, I found this was a
> shame.
>
> To reignite the the initiative, I decided to design and develop a
> prototype implementation of the Berlin API, most creatively named the
> "LSB Package API". It is designed as a simple D-Bus interface
> accompanied with an XML-based package description format. A detailed
> description and the source code can be found on this page:
>
>  http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB_Package_API
>
> The implementation currently supports integration into RPM and dpkg; due
> to its modular nature, support for more package managers could be added
> later on.
>
> I hope this implementation will act as a starting point for resurrecting
> the Berlin API process. Let us overcome the "Third-party software
> installation on Linux sucks" problem and strive to a brave new world of
> easily distributable Linux software! ;)
>
> Best regards,
> Denis Washington
>
> [1] http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Berlin_Packaging_API

How is this different than PackageKit?  PackageKit seems to cover the
use case of presenting a comprehensive API and userspace tools to
manage packages consistently across distros.  What can the Berlin API
do that PackageKit doesn't do, and doesn't make sense for PackageKit
to do?

-Yaakov

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Denis Washington | 21 Jun 13:40 2008
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Re: LSB Package API

On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 13:20 +0200, Yaakov Nemoy wrote:
> How is this different than PackageKit?  PackageKit seems to cover the
> use case of presenting a comprehensive API and userspace tools to
> manage packages consistently across distros.  What can the Berlin API
> do that PackageKit doesn't do, and doesn't make sense for PackageKit
> to do?
> 
> -Yaakov

While the use cases of PackageKit are related to the Berlin API, they
are pretty different. PackageKit is focused on providing a frontend for
managing repository-based package systems, like apt and and yum. It is
mainly thought to abstract installation and upgrades from package
repositories, like when an application likes to install a package with a
particular name from the distro's repos. However, it does not address
the problem of software distribution itself - the repositories and
package files are still specific to the packagaing system.

The Berlin API, on the other side, does exlclusively deal with providing
a package-manager-neutral software distribution method. So the Berlin
API is not a replacement for PackageKit, but a complement. In fact, as
the software installed with the Berlin API is added to the package
system's database, it can be managed (e.g. uninstalled) with PackageKit
afterwards - a dream team! ;)

Regards,
Denis Washington

Nicolas Mailhot | 21 Jun 14:57 2008
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Re: LSB Package API

Le samedi 21 juin 2008 à 13:20 +0200, Yaakov Nemoy a écrit :

> How is this different than PackageKit?  

It would make possible for ISVs to create packages in a non-native
packaging format, so they don't have to care about the format each
distro uses, or about understanding each distro dependency checks, or
generally speaking wasting time and money on integration and QA.

Of course that's supposing you can actually do good packaging in
non-native formats and the distros won't be left to collect the pieces
afterwards.

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Dan Kegel | 21 Jun 15:59 2008

Re: [packaging] LSB Package API

On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Denis Washington <dwashington <at> gmx.net> wrote:
> Some time ago, it was discussed on an LSB face-to-face meeting that an
> API should be developed that allows ISVs to install sotware packages
> which integrate into the package manager - the "Berlin Packaging API".
> While the idea seemed to be well received, there didn't seem much
> progress since then

I dislike that route intensely.  Why, I'm not sure.  Perhaps
because it encourages ISVs to manage package updates themselves,
perhaps because it smacks of the complexity of Microsoft's MSI.

I'm more interested in the single-click install idea Suse's
working on, since it's much less of an end run around
normal Linux packaging practices.  And I have a summer intern
to throw at the problem, so perhaps I'll make some headway on
it.

Can we move followups to packaging <at> lists.linux-foundation.org rather
than cc'ing all those lists?
- Dan

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