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Two Monitors Using CDE Within VM

CDE Experts:

 

First of all, thank you for the great work you are doing keeping CDE

alive.

 

We currently have a set of workstations that run HP-UX 10.20 (and the

CDE) to provide our GUI Applications. My boss has asked me to migrate

our Applications to a more modern environment. His idea is to run this

using Virtual Machines (VMs) and Linux. Sooo, I currently have a

Windows 7 PC that runs VMWare Workstation 10. Within VMWare, I

am running CentOS 7.2 and CDE 2.2.3 (instead of Gnome) that I built from

source. I mimic our current Application FrontPanel . This architecture works

and the “PC” acts just like our current HP-UX workstations. My penultimate

task is to get this architecture to work with two monitors.

 

I cannot seem to get two monitors to work completely with CDE. I have

worked this issue for two weeks with no luck, so I am asking for your help.

If I use Win7/VMWare10/CentOS7/Gnome, I have no problems. I do have

VMWare Tools (not open-vm-tools) installed in the guest (CentOS 7.2) OS.

The physical PC has only one graphics card installed, but the card can drive

two monitors (like it does using Gnome). Within CentOS, I believe I have

only one video device (/dev/fb0) available, so I have not made any changes

to the X config file (/etc/X11/xorg.conf). I have made a lot of little changes in

the last weeks to get this to work and, at one point, I had something close.

In full-screen two-monitor mode within VMWare/CentOS 7, my first monitor

had the “usual” look – I had a centered FrontPanel with the expected

backdrop and dtterm windows. The second monitor was totally black (i.e. no

backdrop). From the first monitor, I was able to drag a dtterm window from

the first monitor to the second monitor. The left side of the dtterm window,

however, would get “stuck” to the right side of the first monitor. I could reside

this window in the second monitor, but I could not get the left side of the

dtterm window to “unstick” from the right side of the first monitor. This implies

(to me, anyway) a problem with X, but I don’t know enough about X to fix this.

 

What additional steps do I need to take to get two monitors to work using

VMWare/CentOS/CDE? I beg your pardon if this is a VMWare problem – my

guess is people who know CDE are more likely to know VMWare than vice-versa.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Regards,

 

Jeff Kolodziej

jeffrey.a.kolodziej-NSQ8wuThN14@public.gmane.org

 

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Martin Etteldorf | 1 May 13:15 2016
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Re: Some plans and some questions

Hi,

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Danilo Schöneberg
<danilo.schoeneberg <at> googlemail.com> wrote:
> Moin,
>
> There is one system left I'm checking out the build for - Linux From
> Scratch. I'm building it right now (the system. Not CDE yet).
>
> I have ten days of vacation coming up,  I was thinking about what to do. I'm
> completely useless at sitting around idly for more than two days. So I was
> thinking about some ideas:
> [...]

There is one thing that comes to my mind, which would greatly improve things:
- Overhaul the utmp implementation in dtterm and replace it by utmpx.
dtterm still tries to log sessions via utmp, but utmp has been
deprecated in FreeBSD and Solaris since quite a while by utmpx. Linux
also uses utmpx, as far as I see (albeit with log files named after
the old utmp scheme).

Kind regards,

Martin Etteldorf

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Isaac Dunham | 30 Apr 07:13 2016
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Re: Some plans and some questions

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 08:09:27PM +0200, Danilo Schöneberg wrote:
> Moin,
> 
> There is one system left I'm checking out the build for - Linux From
> Scratch. I'm building it right now (the system. Not CDE yet).
> 
> I have ten days of vacation coming up,  I was thinking about what to do.
> I'm completely useless at sitting around idly for more than two days. So I
> was thinking about some ideas:
> 
> 1) A CDE-based Live-CD

Look at CDEbian; I think it's not active any more, but it should be
helpful.
On this note, work on making the install scripts more suitable for
packagers would be very helpful.

> 2) researching integration of some modern technologies (like automount of
> devices, udev, sound systems)

As far as automount goes, it would seem that if you have a panel in dtfile
that lists block devices, you could create an action for block devices
that would call your automounter/open dtfile at the mount point.

As far as sound support goes, there's a whole lot of APIs under *nix.
I'd suggest that the best approach would be
-get a separate mixer program working
-make sure it can be embedded in the dtwm front panel
The first place I found is "CDE frontpanel embeds sdtperfmeter-but how?":
http://www.verycomputer.com/168_b0cb70320892a5a3_1.htm
xmmixer is the first program that comes to mind, but there are a couple
others; I'm not aware of any work towards embedding these.

If you're talking about 'sound theme'-type deals where you need to modify
CDE to play a sound when you click on a certain item, please don't.
(I, for one, don't like the modern stuff that "blinks, beeps, and dances".)

> 3) "modernizing" some of the dt apps (mail, text editor, dtlogin)

Modernizing dtmail to some extent sounds nice.
My own wishlist would be IMAP support, and perhaps xmhtml integration.

Don't touch Webkit; it's a security nightmare and a bottomless pit for
time.
One of the GTK webkit developers wrote about the security status of the
ports; it seems that gtkwebkit sporadically gets some security updates,
the others get none, and there's no channel or protocol for communicating
about vulnerabilities between ports. In essence, it's several projects
that happen to use a single tree.
Besides that, webkit regularly breaks API, requiring periodic rewrites.
Timewise, you might get a port ready in a few months.

> 4) code cleanup (warnings)

This would be the best, I think.

> What would be the preferred option from the team point of view? This also
> brings up another question. What is the long-term goal? Do we try to keep
> CDE running as it is or are there plans to actively develop it into a next
> generation?

As far as I can tell, the goal is
* clean it up
* make the parts conform to relevant standards underneath.
 - there was talk about using libmagic for filetype detection
 - there was talk about using *.desktop rather than *.dt actions
 - dtwm needs EWMH for modern programs to act nicely
 - tooltalk to dbus migration came up; dbus is apparently an incompatible
   clone of tooltalk, so this might be relatively simple

> For instance, I would love to see some more applications
> developed (like a really good ftp client, image viewer, perhaps adding some
> HTML support to the mail client (either via XmHTML or maybe even webkit).
> All based on Motif of course. It has all a UI needs. It may look a bit

There were several Motif FTP clients in the past; I've never looked hard
enough to say if any/which were good.

For image viewers, Ida is quite good and the code is very clean, though
the image format support is pretty limited, and it can't set the desktop
background (that's a longstanding TODO item, so patches are quite likely
to be accepted).
When I asked about whether CDE integration would be welcome, the maintainer
was quite ready to accept patches. I don't think I got much feedback here,
though. (Then I ended up switching to a much-less-compatible distro,
where I've never tried building CDE. And now, I'm a week or so from going
offline for the summer.)

I already commented on XmHTML vs Webkit, and mentioned IMAP support for
dtmail.

Other roles where Motif programs are sorely lacking, IMHO:
- A video player (I'd start with ffmpeg or libav, rather than gstreamer.
But that's personal choice.)
- An audio player. (You don't really need a dedicated one, if your 'video
player' is properly set up.)
- Something like the "X printing panel", where you can essentially build
an 'lp' command line
- web browsers, but these are *big* projects.
(Daydreaming...I'd like to see the video player done as a widget, which
can be used for 'HTML5'-style video support in XmHTML, and then XmHTML
hooked up to libcurl to create a web browser. I realize that this would
not be a high-feature browser, having no JS/CSS, and only limited HTML,
but IMHO the main reasons to use something newer than MosaicCK are:
-a lack of any security support
-Mosaic's network code is old and slow
-it isn't possible to play video
Unfortunately, some knuckleheads have decided that a novel's worth of JS
and CSS is the only way to show webpages...)

Thanks,
Isaac Dunham

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Edmond Orignac | 29 Apr 19:32 2016
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Re: Some plans and some questions


On 28/04/2016 20:09, Danilo Schöneberg wrote:
> Moin,
>
> There is one system left I'm checking out the build for - Linux From
> Scratch. I'm building it right now (the system. Not CDE yet).
>
> I have ten days of vacation coming up,  I was thinking about what to do.
> I'm completely useless at sitting around idly for more than two days. So
> I was thinking about some ideas:
>
> 1) A CDE-based Live-CD
There was a Debian based Linux distribution called CDebian. I am unsure 
whether it has kept current with CDE. There is a github page at
https://github.com/andarazoroflove/CDE-Projects

> 2) researching integration of some modern technologies (like automount
> of devices, udev, sound systems)
It is better to leave out sound systems. On Linux alone, one would
have to support ALSA, OSS, Jackd and PulseAudio.
> 3) "modernizing" some of the dt apps (mail, text editor, dtlogin)
> 4) code cleanup (warnings)
>
> What would be the preferred option from the team point of view? This
> also brings up another question. What is the long-term goal? Do we try
> to keep CDE running as it is or are there plans to actively develop it
> into a next generation? For instance, I would love to see some more
> applications developed (like a really good ftp client, image viewer,
> perhaps adding some HTML support to the mail client (either via XmHTML
> or maybe even webkit).
There was a LGPL licensed ftp client called AxyFTP using Motif and 
DtWidget library 
http://hpux.connect.org.uk/hppd/hpux/Networking/FTP/axyftp-0.5.1/
There has been some messages in that mailing list about the Ida Motif 
image viewer and its integration into CDE.
  All based on Motif of course. It has all a UI
> needs. It may look a bit dated, but I love it, much more than all the
> new-fangled stuff that blinks, beeps and dances, but gobbles up resources.
>
> One thing I noticed on my old Compaq nx8220, running NetBSD: CDE makes
> other DE's that were deliberately designed to be lightweight (LXDE,
> LXQT) look positively bloated and sluggish. It could really be an
> alternative on low-end systems.
There are some comparison of RAM usage of the different DEs (on Linux).
https://eerielinux.wordpress.com/tag/opencde/
LXDE and Razor-Qt use 10 to 40 MB more than CDE. That could contribute 
to their slowness on an old machine.
>
> Cheers,
> Hippo
>
>
>
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Peter Howkins | 29 Apr 19:11 2016
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Re: Some plans and some questions

Openmotif, from version 2.3 onwards has xft font support built in without
any extra dependancies, that CDE can use pretty much directly.

I last had a go at making this work during the porting effort to Linux
before the open source release. This was before I had the regular CDE font
specifiers working.

http://www.marutan.net/pics/CDE-20120329.png
http://www.marutan.net/pics/CDE-20120629.png

All standard Motif widgets work out of the box, but it would still need
extra work for dtwm titlebars and menus, dtfile text under icons,
workspace names etc.

IMO this does look considerably better than the current font rendering 
but this would need to be optional code, both at compile time (for older 
motif with without xft), and runtime, for users that prefer trad x font
rendering.

I'll have a bit of a play and see if I can remember how to test this a bit 
more.

Peter

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 06:00:51AM +0200, Danilo Schöneberg wrote:
>    Hi Antonis,
>    I think there was never anything wrong with X11 font support, until people
>    started asking for Comic Sans. You have to be careful what you include or
>    you'll end up with a huge behemoth that has hundreds of dependencies
>    because every beep needs to have its own library these days. In the end
>    people run out of names and name their library libcaca (which phenetically
>    mean libPoo in German btw). Back in the day Xfree built from source in
>    about three hours on a Pentium II. I built the latest XOrg on NetBSD last
>    week and it took a whooping eight hours, 
>    Without git CDE and its dependencies still build in under two hours, even
>    on a low-range system, and I think that should stay that way. That is, if
>    you have Xorg already. I think the main selling point for CDE is its low
>    requirements in terms of resources. With a few moderate modernizations it
>    could carve out its own niche. 
>    On 28 April 2016 at 21:47, Antonis Tsolomitis
>    <[1]antonis.tsolomitis <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>      How about modern font support?
> 
>      Antonis.
> 
>      On 28/04/2016 09:09 μμ, Danilo Schöneberg wrote:
> 
>        Moin, 
>        There is one system left I'm checking out the build for - Linux From
>        Scratch. I'm building it right now (the system. Not CDE yet). 
>        I have ten days of vacation coming up,  I was thinking about what to
>        do. I'm completely useless at sitting around idly for more than two
>        days. So I was thinking about some ideas:
>        1) A CDE-based Live-CD
>        2) researching integration of some modern technologies (like automount
>        of devices, udev, sound systems) 
>        3) "modernizing" some of the dt apps (mail, text editor, dtlogin)
>        4) code cleanup (warnings)
>        What would be the preferred option from the team point of view? This
>        also brings up another question. What is the long-term goal? Do we try
>        to keep CDE running as it is or are there plans to actively develop it
>        into a next generation? For instance, I would love to see some more
>        applications developed (like a really good ftp client, image viewer,
>        perhaps adding some HTML support to the mail client (either via XmHTML
>        or maybe even webkit). All based on Motif of course. It has all a UI
>        needs. It may look a bit dated, but I love it, much more than all the
>        new-fangled stuff that blinks, beeps and dances, but gobbles up
>        resources. 
>        One thing I noticed on my old Compaq nx8220, running NetBSD: CDE makes
>        other DE's that were deliberately designed to be lightweight (LXDE,
>        LXQT) look positively bloated and sluggish. It could really be an
>        alternative on low-end systems. 
>        Cheers,
>        Hippo
> 
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> References
> 
>    Visible links
>    1. mailto:antonis.tsolomitis <at> gmail.com
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--

-- 
Peter Howkins
peter.howkins <at> marutan.net

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Danilo Schöneberg | 25 Apr 16:21 2016
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Updated Linux Build

 Hi, 

Made some minor corrections to Linux Build page to reflect changes necessary to build in Ubuntu 14.04.4.

Ubuntu 16.04 currently doesn't build, for some reason dtinfo doesn't build. Still investigating. 

So far I could berify builds under the following systems:

NetBSD 6.1.5
NetBSD 7.0
FreeBSD 10.2
FreeBSD 10.3 
Ubuntu 14.04 (32 and 64 bit)

Btw. Would it perhaps be worth considering to offer binary packages for launchpad:ppa? (Ubuntu). 

Also, the NetBSD pkgsrc is still rated WIP. I'm looking into lending them a hand to promote it to production status. 

Cheers, 
The Hippo
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Peter Howkins | 21 Apr 00:07 2016
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Disabling libXp (and printing)

I've just pushed a patch that disables CDEs use of libXp. libXp has been 
deprecated for years and is no longer contained in the recent versions of 
most of the OSes.

This should work fine on Linux and the BSDs, but can some BSD people test 
the various flavours and let me know if it's building OK.

Peter

--

-- 
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peter.howkins@...

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alx | 18 Apr 20:31 2016

Patches

Hi, I have some patches here:

- Enable FILE_MAP_OPTIMIZE in dtfile on FreeBSD and Linux to avoid 
tt_file_netfile calls when browsing on local host. This speeds up dtfile 
a bit in general; also it appears that the tt_file_netfile rpc is 
terribly slow on some Linuxen, I have no clue why though :)

- Enable XDM authentication on FreeBSD

- Use X11 screensaver extension on FreeBSD

- amd64 varargs bugfixes in dtwm.

Regards
Alex
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Danilo Schöneberg | 15 Apr 08:25 2016
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Building CDE on NetBSD 6.1.5 and NetBSD 7.0

I've successfully built the latest CDE revision on NetBSD, but the Build instructions need some updates: 

Section 2: Install Packages
===========================

Under NetBSD 7.0 the ast-ksh built is broken, however it can be installed by issuing : 

pkg_add -v ast-ksh
unset PKG_PATH


Section 3: Building Motif
=========================

The patch to the Makefile breaks all other motif builds, and one would suspect that some might want to use the Motif flavoured variants of VIM or Emacs for better visual integration. That's why the following patch is needed after building motif:

cat >> /usr/pkgsrc/mk/motif.buildlink3.mk << EOF
.include "../../x11/libXp/buildlink3.mk"
.include "../../x11/printproto/buildlink3.mk"
EOF

Section 7: Symlinks
===================

On Systems that use the modular-xorg package from pkgsrc instead of NetBSD's native X11, need to add the following symlink

ln -s /usr/pkg /usr/X11R7

Two more symlinks to the ones listed are needed, else several programs will not compile: 

cd cdesktopenv-code/cde
mkdir -p imports/x11/include
ln -s /usr/X11R7/include/X11 imports/x11/include/
ln -s /usr/pkg/include/Xm imports/x11/include/
ln -s /usr/pkg/include/fontconfig imports/x11/include/
ln -s /usr/pkg/include/freetype2/ft2build.h imports/x11/include/

Now CDE builds properly. 

Cheers, 
The Hippo
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jz78817 | 21 Mar 02:11 2016
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sans-serif fonts in CDE

Hi, 

this is probably a n00b question, but I'm pretty short on knowledge of X font naming.  Can anyone tell me what I should do if I want to change my build of CDE to use sans-serif fonts in title bars, menus, etc. like the later versions of Solaris?

thank you,
Jim
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Antonis Tsolomitis | 25 Feb 09:57 2016
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dtterm corruption


Do you get the dtterm screen corrupted or it is only me?

It often gets corrupted when using vi or less or even at command line 
when copying/pasting.

Is this a known issue? Is there a solution?

Antonis.

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