Peter Tröger | 9 Mar 16:07 2011
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Status update - We are still here !

Dear all,

after some quiet weeks on the DRMAA mailing list, I want to give a short update on what is going on at the moment.

As announced earlier, I suspended the DRMAA phone calls in order to start a coordinated transition of the
DRMAAv2 Wiki into a true specification document. As usual, the whole process takes *much* longer than
expected. This is reasoned by the surprisingly high number of empty sections in the Wiki, and the obvious
consistency problems when pasting everything in one document.

You can always see the current status of the final document in the Subversion repository for the Latex sources:

http://forge.ogf.org/integration/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/?root=drmaav2spec

I saved some time for getting things done in the upcoming weeks, but any help would be more than welcome.
While I still prefer to centralize the editing on Dan and me, there are plenty of things were you can help:

- We have many empty paragraphs which just need text proposals. Pick an empty spot, and send me a text
snippet. Do not use the Wiki anymore !
- Some content questions showed up during the writing, they might also need your mental capacity.
- The mapping tables for JSDL and OGSA-BES need a re-evaluation, due to latest changes in our state model.
- We need a comparison to DRMAAv1 - new and changed concepts.
- Nobody started to write the C binding so far.
- Nobody started to write the Java binding so far.
- Nobody started to write the Python binding so far.

I created some pressure on myself by starting (together with Thijs, Andre and others) a coordinated effort
for making OGF a mentoring organization in the Google summer of code. If this works out, we might get some
student resources for DRMAAv2 implementations. This obviously demands readable document drafts ;-),
but the projects are there:

(Continue reading)

Peter Tröger | 29 Mar 14:27 2011
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DRMAA Version 2 - Final Document - Draft 1

Dear all,

it took 3 months instead of 3 weeks, but we finally made it. Attached you can find the first official draft for
the final DRMAA v2 specification.

I attached a preview for the official text, plus an annotated version with ToDo markers + explanations +
line numbers. The latter should be used as foundation for all upcoming discussions.

We will start again with weekly (!) conf calls beginning from next week, until the remaining issues are
solved. Please feel free to use the list for initial discussions, this saves time on the phone.

Best regards,
Peter.

Attachment (drmaav2_draft1.pdf): application/pdf, 624 KiB


Daniel S. Katz | 29 Mar 16:52 2011
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Re: DRMAA Version 2 - Final Document - Draft 1

Hi,

I just want to say hello to the list, as a new OGF Area Co-Director for Applications.

I look forward to hearing about this discussion and seeing the progress towards the spec.  I will be
following the email list, but probably not following the phone calls.

If have a problem where you feel I can help, please let me know.

Thanks
Dan

On Mar 29, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Peter Tröger wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> it took 3 months instead of 3 weeks, but we finally made it. Attached you can find the first official draft
for the final DRMAA v2 specification.
> 
> I attached a preview for the official text, plus an annotated version with ToDo markers + explanations +
line numbers. The latter should be used as foundation for all upcoming discussions.
> 
> We will start again with weekly (!) conf calls beginning from next week, until the remaining issues are
solved. Please feel free to use the list for initial discussions, this saves time on the phone.
> 
> Best regards,
> Peter.
> 
> <drmaav2_draft1.pdf><drmaav2_draft1_annotated.pdf>
> 
(Continue reading)

Peter Tröger | 29 Mar 21:56 2011
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Re: DRMAA Version 2 - Final Document - Draft 1

Dear Daniel,

congratulations, seems like I missed the announcement for the position change. I left out some OGF
conferences in the past, sorry for this ...

As you might have heard from Steven, DRMAA has the typical high / low activity phases of a OGF working group.
We were really busy with pushing the DRMAA version 2 development in 2010, including meetings with SAGA, 
OCCI and different user communities. DRMAA has (or should I say had) the advantage of a large end user
community with Sun Grid Engine, which lead to many other adoptions of the spec (check drmaa.org). The
second version basically considers everything we got as feedback for DRMAA in the last years. 

It would be great if you could help us a little bit to promote the new version inside of OGF when the public
comment period is over. SAGA and OCCI are already in close contact with us, OGSA-BES and JSDL are at least
mentioned. Spreading the word inside and outside of OGF will become crucial to hopefully reach the same
level of uptake as with the first version.

Thanks and best regards,
Peter.

Am 29.03.2011 um 16:52 schrieb Daniel S. Katz:

> Hi,
> 
> I just want to say hello to the list, as a new OGF Area Co-Director for Applications.
> 
> I look forward to hearing about this discussion and seeing the progress towards the spec.  I will be
following the email list, but probably not following the phone calls.
> 
> If have a problem where you feel I can help, please let me know.
> 
(Continue reading)

Daniel S. Katz | 29 Mar 22:01 2011
Picon

Re: DRMAA Version 2 - Final Document - Draft 1

See: http://ogf.org/News/news.php?id=144

Regarding DRMAA, I see it as a useful and well-used standard.  I will be happy to help promote the new version.

Dan

On Mar 29, 2011, at 2:56 PM, Peter Tröger wrote:

> Dear Daniel,
> 
> congratulations, seems like I missed the announcement for the position change. I left out some OGF
conferences in the past, sorry for this ...
> 
> As you might have heard from Steven, DRMAA has the typical high / low activity phases of a OGF working group.
We were really busy with pushing the DRMAA version 2 development in 2010, including meetings with SAGA, 
OCCI and different user communities. DRMAA has (or should I say had) the advantage of a large end user
community with Sun Grid Engine, which lead to many other adoptions of the spec (check drmaa.org). The
second version basically considers everything we got as feedback for DRMAA in the last years. 
> 
> It would be great if you could help us a little bit to promote the new version inside of OGF when the public
comment period is over. SAGA and OCCI are already in close contact with us, OGSA-BES and JSDL are at least
mentioned. Spreading the word inside and outside of OGF will become crucial to hopefully reach the same
level of uptake as with the first version.
> 
> Thanks and best regards,
> Peter.
> 
> 
> Am 29.03.2011 um 16:52 schrieb Daniel S. Katz:
> 
(Continue reading)

Daniel S. Katz | 31 Mar 02:03 2011
Picon

Re: DRMAA Version 2 - Final Document - Draft 1

Some comments from a scan of the document:

I would like a rational section for this document - something that says what the issue with DRMAA v1 were, and what changes have been made in v2 to address those issues - I know there are footnotes in the doc that talk about differences, but it would be good to have all the differences in one place, along with the reasons.

Sun Grid Engine is probably renamed just Grid Engine or Univa Grid Engine now - not sure, but this should be checked.


line 80 - stake holders should be stakeholders
line 81 - which should be that
line 86 - not clear what resp. means
line 100 - 2nd paragraph - remove "itself"
line 122 - API's should be APIs
line 149 and 150 - change to "with a resolution at least to seconds"
line 151 and 152 - change which to that
line 152+ - A line for UNSET should follow.
line 156 - another "resp." that I don't understand.
line 159+ call-by-value has the wrong initial quote - probably a LaTeX error in not using `` - this seems to be a general problem, and a global fix should be applied
line 160 footnote - change "from DRMAA" to "out of DRMAA"
line 161 - section 4.1 - are there other OSs that should be added?  newer windows?  Cray? (maybe this is Linux?)
line 233 - define Kibibyte - maybe define all units somewhere?
line 247 - are there systems that have a wall-clock time limit in their schedulers?  I'm familiar with limits of run-time, but these are usually in CPU time, not wall-clock time.  I don't know of a wall-time limit that includes time in the queue, but perhaps I've missed something.
line 481 - why would they be defined otherwise?  This seems odd.
line 539-540 - I'm not sure what "according race conditions." means
line 541, 546 - more "resp."  this continues in other places...
line 648 - should be "is not allowed."
line 650 - In case should be "In this case".
line 652 - "information" should be deleted or changed to another word.  "Every ... information" isn't grammatical English.
line 694 - "allows to" should be "allows one to"
line 863 - how should the checkpointability of a job be denoted?
line 917 - of should be or
line 953 - It's not clear what dictionary is referred to here.
line 1051 - beside should be "in addition to"
line 1054 - "allows to" should be "allows one to"
line 1095 - "allow tho" should be "allows one to"
line 1156 - DRM should be "a DRM"
line 1195 - ending should be end
line 1240 table - "were the" should be "where the"
line 1353 - "return also" should be "also return"
line 1371 box - I'm not sure what "iterator-alike" means.  Is this simply "iterator-like"?
line 1624 - that should be who
line 1629 - ", however" should be "; however"







On Mar 29, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Peter Tröger wrote:

Dear all,

it took 3 months instead of 3 weeks, but we finally made it. Attached you can find the first official draft for the final DRMAA v2 specification.

I attached a preview for the official text, plus an annotated version with ToDo markers + explanations + line numbers. The latter should be used as foundation for all upcoming discussions.

We will start again with weekly (!) conf calls beginning from next week, until the remaining issues are solved. Please feel free to use the list for initial discussions, this saves time on the phone.

Best regards,
Peter.

<drmaav2_draft1.pdf><drmaav2_draft1_annotated.pdf>


--
drmaa-wg mailing list
drmaa-wg-F/d3TggoGCE@public.gmane.org
http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/drmaa-wg

--
Daniel S. Katz
University of Chicago
(773) 834-7186 (voice)
(773) 834-3700 (fax)
d.katz-EkmVulN54Sk@public.gmane.org or dsk-O4o/el6ea3a+fvpajLlQkQ@public.gmane.org
http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/~dsk/



-- 
Daniel S. Katz
University of Chicago
(773) 834-7186 (voice)
(773) 834-3700 (fax)



<div>Some comments from a scan of the document:<br><br>I would like a rational section for this document - something that says what the issue with DRMAA v1 were, and what changes have been made in v2 to address those issues - I know there are footnotes in the doc that talk about differences, but it would be good to have all the differences in one place, along with the reasons.<br><br>Sun Grid Engine is probably renamed just Grid Engine or Univa Grid Engine now - not sure, but this should be checked.<br><br><br>line 80 - stake holders should be stakeholders<br>line 81 - which should be that<br>line 86 - not clear what resp. means<br>line 100 - 2nd paragraph - remove "itself"<br>line 122 - API's should be APIs<br>line 149 and 150 - change to "with a resolution at least to seconds"<br>line 151 and 152 - change which to that<br>line 152+ - A line for UNSET should follow.<br>line 156 - another "resp." that I don't understand.<br>line 159+ call-by-value has the wrong initial quote - probably a LaTeX error in not using `` - this seems to be a general problem, and a global fix should be applied<br>line 160 footnote - change "from DRMAA" to "out of DRMAA"<br>line 161 - section 4.1 - are there other OSs that should be added? &nbsp;newer windows? &nbsp;Cray? (maybe this is Linux?)<br>line 233 - define Kibibyte - maybe define all units somewhere?<br>line 247 - are there systems that have a wall-clock time limit in their schedulers? &nbsp;I'm familiar with limits of run-time, but these are usually in CPU time, not wall-clock time. &nbsp;I don't know of a wall-time limit that includes time in the queue, but perhaps I've missed something.<br>line 481 - why would they be defined otherwise? &nbsp;This seems odd.<br>line 539-540 - I'm not sure what "according race conditions." means<br>line 541, 546 - more "resp." &nbsp;this continues in other places...<br>line 648 - should be "is not allowed."<br>line 650 - In case should be "In this case".<br>line 652 - "information" should be deleted or changed to another word. &nbsp;"Every ... information" isn't grammatical English.<br>line 694 - "allows to" should be "allows one to"<br>line 863 - how should the checkpointability of a job be denoted?<br>line 917 - of should be or<br>line 953 - It's not clear what dictionary is referred to here.<br>line 1051 - beside should be "in addition to"<br>line 1054 - "allows to" should be "allows one to"<br>line 1095 - "allow tho" should be "allows one to"<br>line 1156 - DRM should be "a DRM"<br>line 1195 - ending should be end<br>line 1240 table - "were the" should be "where the"<br>line 1353 - "return also" should be "also return"<br>line 1371 box - I'm not sure what "iterator-alike" means. &nbsp;Is this simply "iterator-like"?<br>line 1624 - that should be who<br>line 1629 - ", however" should be "; however"<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>On Mar 29, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Peter Tr&ouml;ger wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Dear all,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">it took 3 months instead of 3 weeks, but we finally made it. Attached you can find the first official draft for the final DRMAA v2 specification.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I attached a preview for the official text, plus an annotated version with ToDo markers + explanations + line numbers. The latter should be used as foundation for all upcoming discussions.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">We will start again with weekly (!) conf calls beginning from next week, until the remaining issues are solved. Please feel free to use the list for initial discussions, this saves time on the phone.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Best regards,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Peter.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">&lt;drmaav2_draft1.pdf&gt;&lt;drmaav2_draft1_annotated.pdf&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"> drmaa-wg mailing list<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:drmaa-wg@...">drmaa-wg@...</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/drmaa-wg">http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/drmaa-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>-- <br>Daniel S. Katz<br>University of Chicago<br>(773) 834-7186 (voice)<br>(773) 834-3700 (fax)<br><a href="mailto:d.katz@...">d.katz@...</a> or <a href="mailto:dsk@...">dsk@...</a><br><a href="http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/~dsk/">http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/~dsk/</a><br><br><br><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span"><div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span">--&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"><div><div><span class="Apple-style-span"><div><div><div><span class="Apple-style-span"><div><div>
<div>Daniel S. Katz</div>
<div>University of Chicago</div>
<div>(773)&nbsp;834-7186 (voice)</div>
<div>(773) 834-3700 (fax)</div>
<div>
<a href="mailto:d.katz@...">d.katz@...</a>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<a href="mailto:dsk@...">dsk@...</a>
</div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"><a href="http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/~dsk/">http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/~dsk/</a></span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></span></div>
</div></div></span></div></div></div></span></div></div></span></div>
</div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
</div>
Andre Merzky | 31 Mar 22:31 2011
Picon

Re: DRMAA Version 2 - Final Document - Draft 1

Hi Peter,

I only skimmed through the document, but promise to read it in more
detail once it enters public comment!  So, for now only two small
comments:

 - In table 3, all DRMAA job states which have no entry in the SAGA
column would map to the "Running" state, with a DRMAA state-detail.
For example, the DRMAA state "REQUEUED" would map to SAGA's "Running"
state, with the SAGA state-detail set to "drmaa:REQUEUED".

   I am less sure about the missing values in BES, but I think you
should try to complete the table for BES as well.  I would assume that
all missing states get mapped to BES's "Pending" state, with no
condition on the state-detail string.

 - The contact information for some contributors seem incomplete.

Cheers, Andre.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Peter Tröger <peter@...> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> it took 3 months instead of 3 weeks, but we finally made it. Attached you can find the first official draft
for the final DRMAA v2 specification.
>
> I attached a preview for the official text, plus an annotated version with ToDo markers + explanations +
line numbers. The latter should be used as foundation for all upcoming discussions.
>
> We will start again with weekly (!) conf calls beginning from next week, until the remaining issues are
solved. Please feel free to use the list for initial discussions, this saves time on the phone.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

-- 
So much time, so little to do...
[Garfield]

Gmane