Andy Eskelson | 1 Apr 2011 02:16
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Re: Gob Move and Place -- > Autoplace problem

Sounds about right :-)

It can take a very long time to try all the possible combinations. 

People are MUCH better at such tasks, so what you would normally do is
place a few critical components manually, then lock them in place. Then
let the autplace gp tpo work on the rest. 

As you have found out, sometimes it's quicker to do things manually. 

Andy

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:17:50 -0000
"DanielLC_Boca" <daniel.cross@...> wrote:

> OK, I am starting a new board, so I thought I would try the "Gob Move and Place" to get all the modules into my
PCB outline painlessly. I only have about 30 parts on the board so far, so it will work without a problem.
> 
> Well, it looked like it was doing something; the "rats" were zipping back and forth across my PCB outline
rectangle, so I went away from my computer to let it do its thing. 3 hours later it was still cranking away,
one of my 2 processors pegged at 100%, and the process eating 160K out of 2G of RAM. So I killed it.
> 
> Is this supposed to take so long? It is not very useful when I can hand-place all the parts in 15 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
(Continue reading)

Russ Ferriday | 1 Apr 2011 03:41
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Gravatar

Re: Gob Move and Place -- > Autoplace problem



I agree.
On starting a new project I thought I'd play with that feature.
Gave up very soon. Waste of time.  If you have a tight board, you will need to hand place. If you have loads of space, they you might as well hand place.
I would like to see someone come along and do a rats-nest based device placement. The simplistic algorithm I saw being played out is a non-starter for me.
I'm not surprised tho. It's a hard problem, and IMHO a gimmick. I will only hand place in future.
--r
On Mar 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, DanielLC_Boca wrote:

 

OK, I am starting a new board, so I thought I would try the "Gob Move and Place" to get all the modules into my PCB outline painlessly. I only have about 30 parts on the board so far, so it will work without a problem.

Well, it looked like it was doing something; the "rats" were zipping back and forth across my PCB outline rectangle, so I went away from my computer to let it do its thing. 3 hours later it was still cranking away, one of my 2 processors pegged at 100%, and the process eating 160K out of 2G of RAM. So I killed it.

Is this supposed to take so long? It is not very useful when I can hand-place all the parts in 15 minutes.



Russ Ferriday -- Software and Systems Architect/Developer
CEO Topia Systems Ltd.










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sineysitch | 1 Apr 2011 11:22
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2 different PCBs on 1 panel

I'm considering the Olimex prototype service, which seems to have a fixed panel size.

 "When ordering prototype panel SSS/SSQ/DSS/DSQ you are paying for the WHOLE PANEL AREA. Try to use this
area completely."

To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs A
and B then I'd like to create a third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some
empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?

------------------------------------

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Bernd Wiebus | 1 Apr 2011 12:35
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Re: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel [1 Attachment]

<*>[Attachment(s) from Bernd Wiebus included below]

> To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one
> panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs A and B then I'd like to create a
> third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some
> empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?
> 

Yes.

Make a new empty board. Choose frome menue file > add board (look at the attachment, sorry, german, but you
will identify the item), than choose the board you want to place.
the board will be placed inside the middle of your place, but without the outline layer.
Now group the hole board, and MOVE IT OUT OF THE WAY, and add the board again (or another, if you like). 
So you can compose a new board out of the different boards.
But you will miss the outlines.
So you have to newdraw the outlines. You can save some time, if you make markings on another layer before
importing the board, so you can use them as orientation points.

In this manner, you can also compose a hole new board by reusing always created boards. But you will need to do
a lot of work by renaming / reannotating the components the components, so that tey will fit to the
schematic and the netlist. Because this means not different boards or multiple instances of a board on a
new board for production, but a new board from before created partial boards.

If you want only repeat the same circuits multiple times at the same board, you can also use the group copy and
past function. But, of course, you have to redraw the outline.

With best regards: Bernd Wiebus alias dl1eic

Dipl. Ing. Bernd Wiebus, CID  
Weezer Str. 5
47589 Uedem /Germany

Tel. 02825-9399977
e-mail: bernd.wiebus@...

-- 
GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit 
gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

<*>Attachment(s) from Bernd Wiebus:

<*> 1 of 1 Photo(s)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-users/attachments/folder/1264781788/item/list 
  <*> PlatinenZusammenfuegen.png

------------------------------------

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Robert Wood | 1 Apr 2011 12:40
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Re: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel

This is the kind of thing that is much easier in Gerber editor which is 
why it's a shame gerbview can only view. With CAM350 you can save your 
Gerber files for a board as a PCB (I think you can do the same sort of 
thing in gerbview) then just pull as many different CAM350 boards in as 
you want and panelise them with great ease then export your panel 
Gerbers for the PCB manufacturer.

The problem, I suppose, with PCB editors is that it will, for example, 
be checking for repeat reference designators.

On 01/04/11 11:35, Bernd Wiebus wrote:
> [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Bernd Wiebus included below]
>
>  > To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one
>  > panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs A and B then I'd like to
> create a
>  > third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some
>  > empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?
>  >
>
> Yes.
>
> Make a new empty board. Choose frome menue file > add board (look at the
> attachment, sorry, german, but you will identify the item), than choose
> the board you want to place.
> the board will be placed inside the middle of your place, but without
> the outline layer.
> Now group the hole board, and MOVE IT OUT OF THE WAY, and add the board
> again (or another, if you like).
> So you can compose a new board out of the different boards.
> But you will miss the outlines.
> So you have to newdraw the outlines. You can save some time, if you make
> markings on another layer before importing the board, so you can use
> them as orientation points.
>
> In this manner, you can also compose a hole new board by reusing always
> created boards. But you will need to do a lot of work by renaming /
> reannotating the components the components, so that tey will fit to the
> schematic and the netlist. Because this means not different boards or
> multiple instances of a board on a new board for production, but a new
> board from before created partial boards.
>
> If you want only repeat the same circuits multiple times at the same
> board, you can also use the group copy and past function. But, of
> course, you have to redraw the outline.
>
> With best regards: Bernd Wiebus alias dl1eic
>
> Dipl. Ing. Bernd Wiebus, CID
> Weezer Str. 5
> 47589 Uedem /Germany
>
> Tel. 02825-9399977
> e-mail: bernd.wiebus@... <mailto:bernd.wiebus%40gmx.de>
>
> --
> GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit
> gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
>
> 

------------------------------------

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Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
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Cat C | 1 Apr 2011 18:25
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Favicon

RE: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel



But they'll do it for free for you:
 
"We will panelize many different PCB files on one panel for your free of charge.
We will de-panelize (cut to rectangles) your boards from the panel free of charge."
 
> To: kicad-users-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
> From: sineysitch-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org
> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:22:55 +0000
> Subject: [kicad-users] 2 different PCBs on 1 panel
>
> I'm considering the Olimex prototype service, which seems to have a fixed panel size.
>
> "When ordering prototype panel SSS/SSQ/DSS/DSQ you are paying for the WHOLE PANEL AREA. Try to use this area completely."
>
> To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs A and B then I'd like to create a third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>


__._,_.___

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
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Milind Gupta | 1 Apr 2011 21:42
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Re: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel



Won't it work by creating a combined schematic with the nets all exclusive and then importing the netlist to pcbnew and then doing those 2 PCBs side by side?


On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Cat C <catalin_cluj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
 

But they'll do it for free for you:
 
"We will panelize many different PCB files on one panel for your free of charge.
We will de-panelize (cut to rectangles) your boards from the panel free of charge."
 
> To: kicad-users-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
> From: sineysitch-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org
> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:22:55 +0000
> Subject: [kicad-users] 2 different PCBs on 1 panel


>
> I'm considering the Olimex prototype service, which seems to have a fixed panel size.
>
> "When ordering prototype panel SSS/SSQ/DSS/DSQ you are paying for the WHOLE PANEL AREA. Try to use this area completely."
>
> To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs A and B then I'd like to create a third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>



__._,_.___


Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
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Andy Eskelson | 2 Apr 2011 00:40
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Re: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel

That's a way to get things very confused. (It also confuses me as well!)

Kicad like many similar systems is based on a one to one schematic to pcb
system. Trying to force it to do multiple PCB's is difficult and
generally pointless.

The tools are already in Kicad to place already completed layouts onto a
pcb. Bernd gave the necessary steps to do this. Once you have set out
your panalised board, you can save that for later use.

Some weeks ago there were some postings regarding a script that would
automatically panalise PCB 's however I think it was for multiple
copies of the same board, so it may not be of much use in this case, but
it's worth knowing about.

Andy

On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:42:08 -0700
Milind Gupta <milind.gupta@...> wrote:

> Won't it work by creating a combined schematic with the nets all exclusive
> and then importing the netlist to pcbnew and then doing those 2 PCBs side by
> side?
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Cat C <catalin_cluj@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > But they'll do it for free for you:
> >
> > "We will panelize many different PCB files on one panel for your free of
> > charge.
> > We will de-panelize (cut to rectangles) your boards from the panel free of
> > charge."
> >
> > > To: kicad-users@...
> > > From: sineysitch@...
> > > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:22:55 +0000
> > > Subject: [kicad-users] 2 different PCBs on 1 panel
> >
> > >
> > > I'm considering the Olimex prototype service, which seems to have a fixed
> > panel size.
> > >
> > > "When ordering prototype panel SSS/SSQ/DSS/DSQ you are paying for the
> > WHOLE PANEL AREA. Try to use this area completely."
> > >
> > > To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one
> > panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs A and B then I'd like to create a
> > third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some
> > empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> >  
> >

------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
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Fabio Varesano | 2 Apr 2011 02:08
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Re: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel

I panelize boards from Gerbers using gerbmerge
http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~steriana/Python/gerbmerge/

it's a command line utils which needs some configuration to work but
once you figure out the tool it's actually fast and great.

Please note that I only used it for panelizing for stencil production,
never a complete PCB. In fact I do remember some issues on the drill
file which you should evaluete..

Anyway, I've had a good experience with it.

I've been also suggested to try gbtiler:
http://gbtiler.sourceforge.net/gbtiler-manual-2p0.html

Still didn't try that, but worth mentioning.

Hope this helps,

Fabio

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sineysitch | 2 Apr 2011 10:25
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Favicon

Re: 2 different PCBs on 1 panel


Many thanks indeed for all your valuable suggestions.

Regards,
S.B.

--- In kicad-users@..., "sineysitch" <sineysitch <at> ...> wrote:
>
> I'm considering the Olimex prototype service, which seems to have a fixed panel size.
> 
>  "When ordering prototype panel SSS/SSQ/DSS/DSQ you are paying for the WHOLE PANEL AREA. Try to use this
area completely."
> 
> To make good use of this, I'd like to combine more than one PCB into one panel. That is, say I have 2 PCB designs
A and B then I'd like to create a third PCB "A_and_B" which is simply the two PCB designs separated by some
empty space and routed slots. Is this possible in KiCAD?
>

------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
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