BISCHOFF S├ębastien | 1 Jul 07:57 2002

Re: Netmd functionality with RealOne player now

> RealOne player will then encode MP3s or other media (aif, rm etc.) on the
> fly to Atrac format when copied to the Sony media player (MP3 or NetMD).
on the fly? no they are encoded first and sended before, and the worth thing
is that, unlike openmg, it wait until the last track is transfered before
encoding the next track! a real waste of time were openmg and simple burner
can encode nexts track while transfering others.
> This can be copied as Atrac 64, 105 or 133 for different filesize and
audio
> quality.
105kbps doesn't exists tracks encoded in this format will waste as much
space on the md as an 132kbps track
> Unfortunately, this doesn't help much with using NetMD with any other
> operating system but Windows, as RealOne player is only available for
> Windows OS's, but it does offer an alternative to OpenMG Jukebox and
> possibly another source for backward engineering the format?
yep it's maybe interesent to check if the data are encrypted the same way,
but it's certainly out of luck since real one uses part of the openmg secure
module
> - Dukie
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmd-dev mailing list
> netmd-dev <at> monochromatic.net
> http://gargoyles.monochromatic.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netmd-dev

 
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Marcus Morbe | 1 Jul 20:39 2002
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re: realone player

yes, i heard of the plugin. It seems like simple burner that also 
uses internnally parts of openmg, so, openmg also must be 
installed along with realone, right? or does it work without installing 
opoenmg first? i think it does not (but i didn't test it) 105kbit/sec 
istt expanded to 132kbit/sec, d.h. 105 quality with some dummy 
data making it bigger to 132? the same as "atrac-3 sp" that is 
132kbit/sec quality, but expanded to the size of artac-r but of 
course it is not atrac-r :(
can atrac3-sp tracks played back on old minidisk players, or only 
on mdlp players (then this is useless)?

realone could be an alternative if it

- avoids this 165 mb of program data installed by openmg (how 
much mb has realone with netmd support?)?  can i download the 
plugin separately, or only as a modifies realone jukebox???

- does not make so much trouble (hanging by about 9% when the 
netmd or atrac3-("mp3")-player is conmnected to a hub)

- allows more then 3 checkouts

- allows deleting tracks from the netmd without needing the .omg or 
original .mp3 file on the hdd

- the stupid 132kbit/sec limitation still exists :(

are the other pooiints the same as openmg? then it's not a real 
alternative

(Continue reading)

Alexander Trauzzi | 2 Jul 13:38 2002
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Re: netmd-dev digest, Vol 1 #45 - 1 msg

I've just gone and downloaded the RealONE player, and I'm going to have to
admit...I'm torn.

While I'm ferociously opposed to having this piece of software on my PC,
there were some things that I tested on it, which really impressed me (at
least by comparison to OMfG Flukebox).

The biggest thing I noticed was that if you right click on the "Sony
Devices" icon, and select "Configure", you can force-format a new TOC on the
disc that is currently in the player.  While this doesn't seem exciting, I
had earlier lost two MDs to Simple Burner when it almost predictably
crashed.  Every time I tried to use these MDs, record or read, I would get
TOC errors...  For some reason, RealONE was able to rescue the TOC.  I've no
idea how long this will last of course, but it impressed me that I could use
the discs again.  I don't have the time this morning to test them, but I'll
see to it later.

The other thing (again, by comparison to OMfG) is that it's not NEARLY as
slow.  The interface, despite being skinned has been designed to appeal to
the more rugged and demanding internet audience.  Whereas OpenMG seems to be
a last minute accidental piece of software they whipped up to go along with
NetMD.

I'll probably end up using RealONE for now over OpenMG, because of the
previous two reasons, as well as the fact that you can export as many god
damned times as you please (Holy damn, I never knew I'd have to need such
superficial appreciations!!!).

Tracks creates by RealONE are still "TrProtect"ed, and you do have to have
OpenMG and all it's bloated glory installed.  But I wouldn't be surprised if
(Continue reading)

Cameron Johnston | 2 Jul 19:34 2002
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Re: netmd-dev digest, Vol 1 #45 - 1 msg

Marc and I had discussed this route for ATRAC encoding, but haven't
persued it yet since we'd still have to deal with the fog of ancient
panda mystery which surrounds the encryption/drm parts of NetMD.

I don't think either of us have any experience working with win32 DLLs,
however there are open source projects (WINE and the libavifile player
come to mind) which implement DLL loaders in some form. I don't have any
idea how hard/easy implementing something like this might be, but
assuming the plugin[0] Real is about to release implements the NetMD
functions in a handful of DLLs, it could be just what we need.

Does anyone with experience in similar matters care to comment?

I hope that we'll see an upswing in activity again soon. I know I for
one have been very busy and I understand Marc has been as well.

- Cameron

[0] Real.com press release:
<http://www.realnetworks.com/company/press/releases/2002/realone_sony.html>

On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 05:38, Alexander Trauzzi wrote:
> If RealONE can make use of the .DLL then at least we can see if we can as
> well and work from there perhaps?
Marc Britten | 2 Jul 13:21 2002
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Re: netmd-dev digest, Vol 1 #45 - 1 msg

On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 13:34, Cameron Johnston wrote:

> I hope that we'll see an upswing in activity again soon. I know I for
> one have been very busy and I understand Marc has been as well.

I've been about as busy as its possible to get I think, the main problem
is all the easy bits have been done, now theres a lot more chaff to sort
through w/out as many clues even for the basic non track downloading
possibilities.

time is very valuble when it comes to staring at protcol dumps and
saying, "i dunno how about this"?
Alexander Trauzzi | 3 Jul 13:21 2002
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Re: netmd-dev digest, Vol 1 #46 - 3 msgs

Might it be possible to watch a system's memory while running OpenMG, and
then look for some similar traits while running RealONE?
That way we might be able to see what they share in common, and what they
implement to get the job done.  Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if a DLL is
there, shouldn't that mean that there's nothing to say we can't use it?

I don't know.  I'm still so inexperienced when it comes to unwinding
programs.  But I think work should stem from -gasp- reverse engineering what
we can already see.  It'll take the punch out of guessing the systems made
up by the crazy control freaks at Sony.

- Alexander Trauzzi

----- Original Message -----
From: <netmd-dev-request <at> monochromatic.net>
To: <netmd-dev <at> monochromatic.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 5:34 AM
Subject: netmd-dev digest, Vol 1 #46 - 3 msgs

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(Continue reading)

Erik Almqvist | 3 Jul 13:56 2002
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hi

Hi!

Thanx for this great project!
I'm a long-time Linux user who bought a MZ/N1, installed Win2k and OMG, just 
to find out it crashes on my computer... re-installation - same problem again 
:(

Then I saw you project a few days ago, what a blessing!

I'm not really a coder, but I would like to help any way I can.
In the future, when OpenNMD comes along and starts to mature a bit, maybe you 
could set up a pay pal donation system. I would gladly donate some.

If there's anything else you need help with, please let me know!

Sincerely,
Erik Almqvist, aka ealm
erik.almqvist <at> home.se
Marcus Morbe | 3 Jul 16:18 2002
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fwd: netmd hardware-hacking

(headers of the original mail sender removed in order not to violate 
privacy (i did not ask if he agfrees with the forward) )

> Yes, basically I don't think anyone will crack the NetMD upload 
without
> cracking attrac, and this is a legislative nightmare (read Sony 
won't allow
> it!), so it may come down to sony being nice (and reasonable) 
and stripping
> away the software limitations that prevent unfettered upload.
> 
right, but why do we know there is a command in the minidsc 
player firmware that can be used to get (encrypted?) atrac data 
from the disc?

ok, 2 hours ago, i had a very stupid idea, i think it's a big crap, but i 
will tell it anyway

if we open the md player, put a cable after the laser read unit, so 
we can "read" the raw disk bitstream to the pc, there we must find 
the track start and give this to the atrac3 decoder plugins in order 
to play this.

and a much more stupid idea: if we would do the same for the 
writing direction (connecting cables to the laser controlelr chip for 
write direction - ok, it's totally mad and i do not beliebve this works, 
also no "normal" user would do such things with his minidisk... :)

this was not a real intention, just a funny and mad thought...

(Continue reading)

Dukie | 3 Jul 17:32 2002

Re: realone plugin

> I'll probably end up using RealONE for now over OpenMG, because of the
> previous two reasons, as well as the fact that you can export as many god
> damned times as you please (Holy damn, I never knew I'd have to need such
> superficial appreciations!!!).

Yep, this is my whole thing with the RealOne player, that although it is
horribly bloated it has some nice functionality with the NetMD player,
without many of the restrictions of OpenMG Jukebox. Which means that my
library of MP3 files can be quite happily transferred over to minidiscs.

(The RealOne player creates a separate library of Attrac encoded files, that
can be kept or discarded.)

And the upshot is that I'm running this software in Virtual PC on my
Macintosh Powerbook, which means I'm getting at least some use of the player
with the Mac!!
Brian Scott Oplinger | 5 Jul 17:00 2002
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Re: realone plugin

>And the upshot is that I'm running this software in Virtual PC on my
>Macintosh Powerbook, which means I'm getting at least some use of the player
>with the Mac!!

Huh? Do you mean that the RealPlayer can encode/transfer .omg files 
to the player when running VPC? I've tried all sorts of combo's with 
VPC myself and both SimpleBurner and OMG give me a blue screen of 
death whenever they get to the encoding step. (VPC 5, running under 
either 9.2.2 or X.1.5, Win98)

What is your setup that works?

TIA
B

Gmane