Gioele | 3 Nov 16:57 2008
Picon

"Artistic production" vs "production"

Hi there,

I'm in the process of adding some albums released in the '90s by an Italian
band.

What I find odd is that their booklets have two kinds of
production: "produzione artistica" (artistic production) by the band and
another composer plus "produzione" (production) by a guy from the
production label.

Which ARs should I add?

I think that "produzione artistica" could be a ProducedBy AR
and "produzione" could be a ProducedBy + executive AR.

What do you think?

--

-- 
Gioele <gioele@...>
Brant Gibbard | 3 Nov 22:57 2008
Picon

Re: "Artistic production" vs "production"

To me it sounds like "produzione" is more in line with what MB calls
"Produced" and "produzione artistica" would be closer to one of the MB terms
like "Provided creative direction for" or less probably "Provided artist &
repertoire support for".

Brant Gibbard
Toronto, ON
http://bgibbard.ca 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: musicbrainz-style-bounces@... 
> [mailto:musicbrainz-style-bounces@...] On 
> Behalf Of Gioele
> Sent: November-03-08 10:58 AM
> To: musicbrainz-style@...
> Subject: [mb-style] "Artistic production" vs "production"
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm in the process of adding some albums released in the '90s 
> by an Italian band.
> 
> What I find odd is that their booklets have two kinds of
> production: "produzione artistica" (artistic production) by 
> the band and another composer plus "produzione" (production) 
> by a guy from the production label.
> 
> Which ARs should I add?
> 
> I think that "produzione artistica" could be a ProducedBy AR 
(Continue reading)

Frederic Da Vitoria | 3 Nov 23:15 2008
Picon

Re: "Artistic production" vs "production"

I checked "artistic production" in Google and I found about every
possible meaning I could think of plus quite a few others. This is one
of these cases where I would put an annotation, because nobody can be
really sure of the exact meaning.

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:57 PM, Brant Gibbard <bgibbard@...> wrote:
> To me it sounds like "produzione" is more in line with what MB calls
> "Produced" and "produzione artistica" would be closer to one of the MB terms
> like "Provided creative direction for" or less probably "Provided artist &
> repertoire support for".
>
> Brant Gibbard
> Toronto, ON
> http://bgibbard.ca
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: musicbrainz-style-bounces@...
>> [mailto:musicbrainz-style-bounces@...] On
>> Behalf Of Gioele
>> Sent: November-03-08 10:58 AM
>> To: musicbrainz-style@...
>> Subject: [mb-style] "Artistic production" vs "production"
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I'm in the process of adding some albums released in the '90s
>> by an Italian band.
>>
>> What I find odd is that their booklets have two kinds of
>> production: "produzione artistica" (artistic production) by
(Continue reading)

Philipp Wolfer | 24 Nov 17:28 2008

Re: Removal of homeburnt discIds

Hi,

reopening an older discussion: Edit #9534224 (http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9534224) is a good example why it might be bad to remove disc IDs that just look suspicious.

Obviously there are valid disc IDs that have those 2 seconds extra in every track which some people use to identify home burnt CDs. I'm in favor of keeping the database clean, but please think twice before going through the database removing every disc ID that might be home burnt.

Cheers,
Philipp (OutsideContext)

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Bram van Dijk <bram_van_dijk <at> hotmail.com> wrote:
This one:
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/HowToAddDiscIDs
(though you might say it is not a guideline)

If I am not mistaken, burning the exact same mp3 or whatever will result
in different discIDs dependent on the which burner one uses. Maybe even
with which program?

Thus, if we allow this, we will get hundreds of discIDs for some
releases, and most of these will only be useful to someone who happens
to burn their music in the exact same way on the same hardware as the
one who originally added the discID.

IMHO this is not useful, and we thus should not allow it as it does get
in the way. With which I mean that as we are displaying the release
events below the discIDs, having 100 or more of them on a release is not
very nice.

Bram / jongetje

Lukáš Lalinský schreef:
> Dňa Pi, 2008-05-09 o 21:07 +0800, Chad Wilson napísal:
>
>> BrianG has voted down an edit to remove a homeburnt disc ID at
>> http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8668756
>>
>> Since when has this practice changed, and is BrianG's position that the
>> practice should change technically defensible? (of course AutoEditors
>> voting against style guidelines isn't, in my opinion)
>>
>
> Which style guideline are you referring to in this case? I'm not aware
> of anything, and I personally dislike that removing these supposedly
> homeburnt discids became an accepted practice.
>
> Lukas

--
Philipp Wolfer
_______________________________________________
Musicbrainz-style mailing list
Musicbrainz-style@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
david scotson | 24 Nov 17:51 2008
Picon

Re: Removal of homeburnt discIds

Couple of questions:

Does the identification of (alleged) CD-R copies work in both
directions? That is, if I put in a burnt CD, could my software (or the
MB API) be smart enough to say "that doesn't match any CD-Indexes of
official releases, but I'm 99% sure that it's a burnt copy of album
X". If people agree (as I do) that burning an album to CD shouldn't be
treated as some kind of crime in this era of the iTunes Store,
Creative Commons, and internet distribution etc. then this is a
valuable service to offer, and doing it pro grammatically makes more
sense than trying to get one CD-Index from every burner in the world.

If this CD-R identification method is fairly foolproof why isn't it
being done by an automated script? I'm guessing the people deleting
these are using a script to identify likely suspects to delete, what
extra human thought is added to the process that couldn't be
automated? And if we can automate this, why don't we just tag them as
"suspected home burnt CD-R" (possibly even link them to the original
they were copied from) and hide them from view instead of putting it
up for votes. In the standard case what can the voters possibly
contribute apart from confirming the +2 seconds algorithm has been
applied correctly? Sounds like a job for a computer to me.

cheers,

dave

2008/11/24 Philipp Wolfer <ph.wolfer@...>:
> Hi,
>
> reopening an older discussion: Edit #9534224
> (http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9534224) is a good example why it
> might be bad to remove disc IDs that just look suspicious.
>
> Obviously there are valid disc IDs that have those 2 seconds extra in every
> track which some people use to identify home burnt CDs. I'm in favor of
> keeping the database clean, but please think twice before going through the
> database removing every disc ID that might be home burnt.
>
> Cheers,
> Philipp (OutsideContext)
>
> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Bram van Dijk <bram_van_dijk@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> This one:
>> http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/HowToAddDiscIDs
>> (though you might say it is not a guideline)
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, burning the exact same mp3 or whatever will result
>> in different discIDs dependent on the which burner one uses. Maybe even
>> with which program?
>>
>> Thus, if we allow this, we will get hundreds of discIDs for some
>> releases, and most of these will only be useful to someone who happens
>> to burn their music in the exact same way on the same hardware as the
>> one who originally added the discID.
>>
>> IMHO this is not useful, and we thus should not allow it as it does get
>> in the way. With which I mean that as we are displaying the release
>> events below the discIDs, having 100 or more of them on a release is not
>> very nice.
>>
>> Bram / jongetje
>>
>> Lukáš Lalinský schreef:
>> > Dňa Pi, 2008-05-09 o 21:07 +0800, Chad Wilson napísal:
>> >
>> >> BrianG has voted down an edit to remove a homeburnt disc ID at
>> >> http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8668756
>> >>
>> >> Since when has this practice changed, and is BrianG's position that the
>> >> practice should change technically defensible? (of course AutoEditors
>> >> voting against style guidelines isn't, in my opinion)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Which style guideline are you referring to in this case? I'm not aware
>> > of anything, and I personally dislike that removing these supposedly
>> > homeburnt discids became an accepted practice.
>> >
>> > Lukas
>
> --
> Philipp Wolfer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Musicbrainz-style mailing list
> Musicbrainz-style@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>
Philipp Wolfer | 24 Nov 19:08 2008

Re: Removal of homeburnt discIds

2008/11/24 david scotson <david.scotson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

Couple of questions:

Does the identification of (alleged) CD-R copies work in both
directions? That is, if I put in a burnt CD, could my software (or the
MB API) be smart enough to say "that doesn't match any CD-Indexes of
official releases, but I'm 99% sure that it's a burnt copy of album
X". If people agree (as I do) that burning an album to CD shouldn't be
treated as some kind of crime in this era of the iTunes Store,
Creative Commons, and internet distribution etc. then this is a
valuable service to offer, and doing it pro grammatically makes more
sense than trying to get one CD-Index from every burner in the world.

If this CD-R identification method is fairly foolproof why isn't it
being done by an automated script? I'm guessing the people deleting
these are using a script to identify likely suspects to delete, what
extra human thought is added to the process that couldn't be
automated? And if we can automate this, why don't we just tag them as
"suspected home burnt CD-R" (possibly even link them to the original
they were copied from) and hide them from view instead of putting it
up for votes. In the standard case what can the voters possibly
contribute apart from confirming the +2 seconds algorithm has been
applied correctly? Sounds like a job for a computer to me.

I don't think this identification of CD-Rs is foolproof in any direction. If you burn an audio CD you often get those 2 second gaps, but this really depends on the software and hardware used. Even worse edit #9534224 shows that there can be valid disc IDs of official releases that show the same characteristic.

You can in some cases be pretty sure about whether a disc ID is home burnt or not, but not in any automated way. The 2 second gaps are an indication but not a proof.

Cheers,
Philipp


--
Philipp Wolfer
_______________________________________________
Musicbrainz-style mailing list
Musicbrainz-style@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Arturus Magi | 25 Nov 07:46 2008
Picon

Re: Audio Drama

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Z <johnnyooh@...> wrote:
> Any idea on how to deal with artists on tracks that are audio drama, radio
> drama, radio theatre, etc.? Should it be the writer? What if it is a drama
> re-enacting a manga (comic)? Should it be the script writer or the poriginal
> manga creator? (I'm thinking about Video Girl Ai's 2nd soundtrack:
> http://eyevocal.ottawa-anime.org/ailovemusic/vgaist2.htm ) I couldn't find
> anything on the wiki.
>

Personally, I'd say mark the script writer as the composer, and use
the voice artist(s) as the performer and artist. (I'm also very
critical of the idea that the composer must be the artist on
soundtracks in general, but that discussion never actually gets
anywhere.)

When appropriate, the original creator(s) should be credited in some
way as well, but I'm not sure how at the moment.
Bram van Dijk | 25 Nov 09:24 2008
Picon

Re: Audio Drama


> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:46:01 -0500
> From: sailorleo <at> gmail.com
> To: musicbrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [mb-style] Audio Drama
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Z <johnnyooh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Any idea on how to deal with artists on tracks that are audio drama, radio
> > drama, radio theatre, etc.? Should it be the writer? What if it is a drama
> > re-enacting a manga (comic)? Should it be the script writer or the poriginal
> > manga creator? (I'm thinking about Video Girl Ai's 2nd soundtrack:
> > http://eyevocal.ottawa-anime.org/ailovemusic/vgaist2.htm ) I couldn't find
> > anything on the wiki.
> >
>
> Personally, I'd say mark the script writer as the composer,
 
I think using the "wrote the lyrics for" AR makes more sense than a composition AR.
 
> and use
> the voice artist(s) as the performer and artist. (I'm also very
> critical of the idea that the composer must be the artist on
> soundtracks in general, but that discussion never actually gets
> anywhere.)
>
> When appropriate, the original creator(s) should be credited in some
> way as well, but I'm not sure how at the moment.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Musicbrainz-style mailing list
> Musicbrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style


Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger
_______________________________________________
Musicbrainz-style mailing list
Musicbrainz-style@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Simon Austin | 25 Nov 10:41 2008
Picon

Re: Removal of homeburnt discIds

Uhm, isn't that an example of why it is a good idea to remove the one's
that look suspicious? It goes to a vote and then we find out why it's legit.

Granted, whoever added it might not stand up for it, but if it's really
an extant disc then it should come around again and adding DiscIDs is an
auto-edit...

- Si: chiark
> reopening an older discussion: Edit #9534224 (
> http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9534224) is a good example why it
> might be bad to remove disc IDs that just look suspicious.
>
> Obviously there are valid disc IDs that have those 2 seconds extra in every
> track which some people use to identify home burnt CDs. I'm in favor of
> keeping the database clean, but please think twice before going through the
> database removing every disc ID that might be home burnt.
>   
Paul C. Bryan | 25 Nov 19:04 2008
Picon

Re: Removal of homeburnt discIds

So it's acceptable to have some collateral damage (deleting legitimate
disc IDs that were falsely identified as spurious, not caught in the
voting process), to achieve the goal of having a cleaner database of
disc IDs?

I must admit this doesn't sit well with me.

Also, the practice of removing disc IDs en masse (especially via
automated scripts) doesn't account for any potential confidence level we
can apply to the disc ID, such as who submitted the disc ID (who may be
a seasoned autoeditor), how many times it may have been re-added, how
many times it was queried for by different users.

This last point seems important. If a disc ID is added and never queried
for again, and has a 2-second increase on every track, it would seem far
more probable that the disc ID is spurious. If the disc ID is added and
queried for several times a month, I'd be thinking twice before deleting
it, or voting to approve its deletion.

Also, I haven't been able to get a sense of how much are these spurious
disc IDs are actually impacting normal operation. If a disc ID were
being removed to prevent an apparently-spurious home-burnt disc from
colliding with a clearly legitimate label release, the decision to
delete such entries would be far clearer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Austin <simon@...>
Reply-to: MusicBrainz style discussion
<musicbrainz-style@...>
To: musicbrainz-style@...
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Removal of homeburnt discIds
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:41:53 +0000

Uhm, isn't that an example of why it is a good idea to remove the one's
that look suspicious? It goes to a vote and then we find out why it's legit.

Granted, whoever added it might not stand up for it, but if it's really
an extant disc then it should come around again and adding DiscIDs is an
auto-edit...

- Si: chiark
> reopening an older discussion: Edit #9534224 (
> http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9534224) is a good example why it
> might be bad to remove disc IDs that just look suspicious.
>
> Obviously there are valid disc IDs that have those 2 seconds extra in every
> track which some people use to identify home burnt CDs. I'm in favor of
> keeping the database clean, but please think twice before going through the
> database removing every disc ID that might be home burnt.
>   

_______________________________________________
Musicbrainz-style mailing list
Musicbrainz-style@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style

Gmane