MusicBrainz style discussion ()

Alex Mauer | 24 May 2013 16:42

RFV STYLE-121: Track numbering

This is the RFV for STYLE-121 'track numbering' proposal

Ticket: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-121
Proposal:
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Hawke/Proposal/Track_numbering
Expiration: 2013-05-26

Changes since last RFC:
* Added some wording to describe 'normal' track numbering, and reiterate 
that Artist Intent trumps all.
* Added guidelines for entirely unnumbered tracklistings.
* Added the suggestion to use the order from some 'official' source 
(i.e. another release) when a release has no identifiable side order.

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Frederic Da Vitoria | 19 May 2013 12:59

Re: Alternative Recording Definitions

Thanks

2013/5/19 Ben Ockmore <ben.sput-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

We're discussing the stuff in http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:LordSputnik/Proposals/Recording at the moment

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Alex Mauer | 16 May 2013 22:13

RFC3 STYLE-121: Track numbering

Track numbering discussion, round 3.

Ticket: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-121
Proposal:
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/?title=User:Hawke/Proposal/Track_numbering
Expiration: 2013-05-30

Changes since last RFC:
* Removed section about 'Alternate audio tracks', as it seems impossible
to come to an agreement about how to handle SACD; in addition, alternate
audio tracks are *relatively* rare.
* Minor update to automatic-sequence albums (they can have more than 3
discs, and not all follow the same pattern)
* Change to the guidelines for 'parallel groove' records, to deal with
the removal of alternate audio tracks.
* Add some more guidance for subtracks on CDs. (clarify that in addition
to being impossible to use them in the presence of a discID, it is also
inappropriate to use them in the absence of a discID)
* handle the case where a release prints a side identifier that is not
useful ('side 2' on both sides)

Changes not made:
* There is no distinction made between a release that prints 'side 1' on
the label and one that prints 'side A', nor for using other descriptive
words in the absence of any printed side identifier: That is not the
purpose of this guideline.

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Alex Mauer | 15 May 2013 00:41

RFV STYLE-217: Eliminate 'instrumentator' AR; merge into 'arranged instrument'

Well, the RFC certainly went smoothly.

On to the RFV.

http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-217

This RFV will expire on 2013-05-16

Discussion on IRC [1] has indicated that the 'instrumentator' AR is not
very meaningful, as distinct from the 'arranged instrument on' AR.
Current usage is inconsistent[2, 3], and an order of magnitude smaller
than that of 'arranged instrument on'[3]

Thus I propose that these ARs be merged, and 'instrumentator' be dropped
entirely. If the instrument is specified, it should be merged into
'arranged {instrument} on', otherwise it should be merged into 'arranged'.

1.
http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz/2013/2013-05/2013-05-03.html#T20-07-54-85462
2.
http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz/2013/2013-05/2013-05-03.html#T20-56-50-117559
3. http://beta.musicbrainz.org/statistics/relationships

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symphonick | 10 May 2013 10:44

Re: Alternative Recording Definitions

Not bad. I like "multiple" better than "similar".

2013/5/10 Tom Crocker <tomcrockermail-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

I like that too. What I like about the other one is that the two concepts are organised better together IMO (audio with mastering) (group of tracks). I don't think this does much to solve it but:

"A MusicBrainz recording represents the audio that is shared by multiple release tracks, before copying or mastering"

?

On 10 May 2013 09:04, symphonick <symphonick-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Yeah, that may work. What I like with this wording is that you start with "a recording represents audio in tracks". "A MusicBrainz recording is an abstract group of similar release tracks" needs the second part to make any sense.

2013/5/9 Tom Crocker <tomcrockermail-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

Possibly something similar. The problem I think is it separates the audio from the pre-mastering stage and puts it with the release tracks (at least in the sentence).

The best suggestion I could come up with for this form would be:
A MusicBrainz recording represents the audio shared by a grouping of similar release tracks, before (optional) mastering

On 9 May 2013 22:42, Ben Ockmore <ben.sput-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

I'm not sure it's as clear that way around. Sounds a bit strange to me.

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Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren | 6 May 2013 13:21

RFV STYLE-214: Remove Liner Notes relationship from recordings

Liner notes made a small amount of sense on tracks. On recordings, which are shared, they make none at all.

We have now 106 uses of this relationship, since a fair amount of edits removing them were passed after I submitted the RFC. Can we kill it?

Ticket is at http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-214

Expected pass date is May 9

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Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren | 5 May 2013 12:08

RFV STYLE-216: Allow linking to Wikidata

Wikidata (http://www.wikidata.org/), the linked-data project from Wikimedia, now links to MBIDs, so there's no reason for us not to map back to them. Additionally, we want to add Wikidata relationships to areas (being added May 15) since we're getting datafrom them and thus we have the mapping anyway. And we can also use a Wikidata mapping to import more identifiers (like ISNI, coming May 15 too).

Proposed wiki page is http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Reosarevok/Wikidata_Relationship_Type

Ticket is at http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-216

Expected passing date is May 8

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Alex Mauer | 3 May 2013 23:55

RFC STYLE-217: Eliminate 'instrumentator' AR; merge into 'arranged instrument'

http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-217

This RFC will expire on 2013-05-10

Discussion on IRC [1] has indicated that the 'instrumentator' AR is not
very meaningful, as distinct from the 'arranged instrument on' AR.
Current usage is inconsistent[2, 3], and an order of magnitude smaller
than that of 'arranged instrument on'[3]

Thus I propose that these ARs be merged, and 'instrumentator' be dropped
entirely. If the instrument is specified, it should be merged into
'arranged {instrument} on', otherwise it should be merged into 'arranged'.

1.
http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz/2013/2013-05/2013-05-03.html#T20-07-54-85462
2.
http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz/2013/2013-05/2013-05-03.html#T20-56-50-117559
3. http://beta.musicbrainz.org/statistics/relationships

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symphonick | 29 Apr 2013 19:02

Re: Alternative Recording Definitions

+1 for separate or distinct

I've been trying to edit the "edit" section, but I'm not 100% happy with the results so far. Ideas?

2013/4/29 Tom Crocker <tomcrockermail-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

On 29 April 2013 11:13, Frederic Da Vitoria <davitofrg-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Not necessarily that we shouldn't do it at all, but certainly not in such a way that it could be misinterpreted. Maybe something like:

In MusicBrainz, a recording is a set of one or more audio tracks, which may have been mixed or edited. Please note that mastering alone does not define a new recording in MusicBrainz.

(maybe replace "new" with " separate" or "distinct").

That would do it. Distinct works best to my ears, but I think any of these would do. It makes the most substantial change to the definition up front and explicit.

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Trevor Downs | 29 Apr 2013 01:17

RFC: STYLE-215

Ok, this is my first request for comments, so bear with me here. I'd like to add to the schema a new medium "wax and cardboard disc". It's an old recording medium used in the late 1800s. I added a release to the database from Alexander Graham Bell, one of the few that the Smithsonian was able to recover. In the article they said that the medium was a "wax-and-cardboard disc".

Expiration date: I really don't know what to put here? Two weeks from today? May 10th, 2013?
So my proposal is: Add "wax and cardboard disc" to the mediums under the "Other category"
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-215

Sincerely,

Trevor Downs

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symphonick | 28 Apr 2013 11:07

RFV: Work-Work Arrangement AR

This proposal adds a relationship to link between works when one work is an arrangement of the other work.

This RFV will expire on Tuesday the 30th of April 2013.

http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-5867
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Symphonick/Works_versions

(Since it has been discussed: This AR guideline - like any other AR guideline - describes how to use this AR to connect between existing works in MB. An AR guideline cannot, for instance, define what a "work" is in MB.)

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