dkylepierce | 13 Sep 18:08 2004
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larger PowerLoom apps available?

Hello,

 

I am new to PowerLoom, though I have read most everything I can find about it.  My background is in computer science; I am working in the area of interactive story construction. I have used Prolog for years, and my initial impression is that PowerLoom is more capable for language-oriented work.   I am looking for any sort of more substantial applications written with PowerLoom, that I might study in order to get a better handle on how to do application development using PowerLoom in a Lisp environment.

 

Thanks,

 

Kyle Pierce

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dkylepierce | 14 Sep 15:19 2004
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GNU Common Lisp & PowerLoom?

I am trying to find an inexpensive way to run PowerLoom on my Windows PC.  I guess I really ought to do a Linux installation and run CMU CL, but that seems like a lot of trouble right now.  I'm learning to use GNU Common Lisp but when I try to start PowerLoom, I run into problems.  Has anyone succeeded in using GNU Common Lisp with PowerLoom?  If so, what version of GCL?  Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Kyle

 

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dkylepierce | 14 Sep 21:28 2004
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Clarification: GNU CL and PowerLoom

I should clarify what I asked earlier about using GNU CL to run PowerLoom.  I am trying to find a workable Lisp environment for interactive development using Stella.  I have a Windows XP system but I often use XEmacs and I'm sure I can get a GNU CL process running from there.  Then I just need to get PowerLoom working with GNU CL, or rather, vice versa.  This seems to be a formidable task, though.  I can easily run the Java version in a console, but the editing features are of course almost nonexistent.

 

I would no doubt choose Java as the language for any final implementation, but I want to take advantage of the Lisp environment if I can, for its interactive features.  If, however, there might be better choices for someone who is only moderately familiar with Common Lisp as a development environment, let me know.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Kyle Pierce

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Andre Valente | 14 Sep 22:23 2004

Re: Clarification: GNU CL and PowerLoom

Kyle,

I have been trying for a while to get a no-cost CommonLisp working with Stella 
in Windows to do Stella/PowerLoom development.

The bad news is that we have had no success so far. I asked the ISI PowerLoom 
team (Hans and Tom) to help and they found that all free CommonLisps that work 
in Windows have either (a) limitations compared to the ANSI standard or (b) 
some odd implementation features (e.g., low sizes of BIGNUMs). The 
implementations we got closest to working are LispWorks (there is a free 
version) and clisp (running on Cygwin). But even for these I have not been 
able to make Stella load completely.

After your suggestion I tried GNU CL and it has a lot of problems - to give 
you an instance, it choked on the syntax #+(:AND :ALLEGRO-V5.0 :SUN), which 
AFAIK is ANSI-legal. So it looks like it would be necessary to do some serious 
changes to Stella to try to make it work.

What I am doing (and may be yoru best bet for the moment) is to get a Linux 
machine and install CMUCL. Several people begged the CMLCL team to port it to 
Cygwin but they just said no. :-(

If other people had better luck, perhaps they can let the list know.

Cheers,
Andre

dkylepierce <at> att.net wrote:
> I should clarify what I asked earlier about using GNU CL to run 
> PowerLoom.  I am trying to find a workable Lisp environment for 
> interactive development using Stella.  I have a Windows XP system but I 
> often use XEmacs and I'm sure I can get a GNU CL process running from 
> there.  Then I just need to get PowerLoom working with GNU CL, or 
> rather, vice versa.  This seems to be a formidable task, though.  I can 
> easily run the Java version in a console, but the editing features are 
> of course almost nonexistent.
> 
>  
> 
> I would no doubt choose Java as the language for any final 
> implementation, but I want to take advantage of the Lisp environment if 
> I can, for its interactive features.  If, however, there might be better 
> choices for someone who is only moderately familiar with Common Lisp as 
> a development environment, let me know.
> 
>  
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
>  
> 
> Kyle Pierce
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> powerloom-forum mailing list
> powerloom-forum <at> isi.edu
> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/powerloom-forum
Andras Simon | 15 Sep 00:03 2004
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Re: Clarification: GNU CL and PowerLoom


On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Andre Valente wrote:

> What I am doing (and may be yoru best bet for the moment) is to get a Linux 
> machine and install CMUCL. Several people begged the CMLCL team to port it to 
> Cygwin but they just said no. :-(

Understandably. But see
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.cmucl.devel/6399

Andras
Andre Valente | 15 Sep 00:37 2004

Re: Clarification: GNU CL and PowerLoom


Andras Simon wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Andre Valente wrote:
> 
>> What I am doing (and may be yoru best bet for the moment) is to get a 
>> Linux machine and install CMUCL. Several people begged the CMLCL team 
>> to port it to Cygwin but they just said no. :-(
> 
> 
> Understandably. But see
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.cmucl.devel/6399

This is great (and very recent) news! I look forward to being able to use CMU 
CL in Windows... It shodul be much easier to make the necessary changes (if 
any) to STELLA.

Thanks for the hint,
Andre
dkylepierce | 15 Sep 16:10 2004
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Re: Clarification: GNU CL and PowerLoom

Thank you both, this is very interesting news.  In the meantime, I am looking into the possibilities for a more interactive Java-based solution.

 

Kyle

-------------- Original message from Andre Valente : --------------

>
> Andras Simon wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Andre Valente wrote:
> >
> >> What I am doing (and may be yoru best bet for the moment) is to get a
> >> Linux machine and install CMUCL. Several people begged the CMLCL team
> >> to port it to Cygwin but they just said no. :-(
> >
> >
> > Understandably. But see
> > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.cmucl.devel/6399
>
> This is great (and very recent) news! I look forward to being able to use CMU
> CL in Windows... It shodul be much easier to make the necessary changes (if
> any) to STELLA.
>
> Thanks for the hint,
> Andre
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dkylepierce | 15 Sep 16:25 2004
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Java front-end for PowerLoom?

I am exploring various options for getting up and running with Stella & PowerLoom.  I don't ask much of a usable interactive facility, and am satisfied just to be able to pop up a REPL (read-eval-print loop) window if nothing else.  This is enough to give a great deal of access to the internal state of an application.  So all of the CL features are wonderful, but at the moment I can't devote a lot of time to getting up and running with Stella & PowerLoom in a Linux environment.

 

Has anyone tried writing a simple facility of this sort for the Java version of Stella?  Since Stella does have some debug/trace capabilities of its own (the goal/subgoal-trace feature, at least), should it not be pretty straightforward to include these features in a Java-only implementation, rather than relying on the underlying Lisp environment for that purpose?

 

Please share any thoughts along these lines...

 

Kyle

 

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Thomas Russ | 14 Sep 19:54 2004
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Re: larger PowerLoom apps available?


On Sep 13, 2004, at 9:08 AM, dkylepierce <at> att.net wrote:
> I am new to PowerLoom, though I have read most everything I can find 
> about it.  My background is in computer science; I am working in the 
> area of interactive story construction. I have used Prolog for years, 
> and my initial impression is that PowerLoom is more capable for 
> language-oriented work.   I am looking for any sort of more 
> substantial applications written with PowerLoom, that I might study in 
> order to get a better handle on how to do application development 
> using PowerLoom in a Lisp environment.

Unfortunately, we don't have any particular case studies or software 
that is generally available.   Although we tend to do our development 
in Lisp, we often deliver in Java or C++ instead.  That means that we 
usually do most of our programming directly in Stella, rather than in a 
particular language, preferring only to use a small amount of "glue" 
code for connecting to outside services.

If you have some more specific concerns, please feel free to post 
questions here.  I'll do my best to answer them.

--
Thomas A. Russ, Ph.D.  Senior Research Scientist             tar <at> isi.edu
USC/Information Sciences Institute              WWW:  http://www.isi.edu
4676 Admiralty Way, Marina del Rey, CA 90292              (310) 448-8775
Thomas Russ | 15 Sep 18:00 2004
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Re: Java front-end for PowerLoom?


On Sep 15, 2004, at 7:25 AM, dkylepierce <at> att.net wrote:

>
> Has anyone tried writing a simple facility of this sort for the Java 
> version of Stella?  Since Stella does have some debug/trace 
> capabilities of its own (the goal/subgoal-trace feature, at least), 
> should it not be pretty straightforward to include these features in a 
> Java-only implementation, rather than relying on the underlying Lisp 
> environment for that purpose?
>
>  
>
> Please share any thoughts along these lines...

Well, any Stella function that is defined to be a COMMAND
will be available in the standard PowerLoom listener.  To
that extent you can have certain functions that can be
called interactively.  This is what David Moriarty did when
developing his neural net and learning code for PowerLoom
several years ago.  It's also why the (help) function lists
a number of functions without any particular documentation...

As far as trying to add general interactive features to the
Java side of things, we don't really have the resources for
doing that, and also pretty much feel that such an undertaking
is really the job of the Java tools people.  I have heard that
some of the Java IDEs are getting a lot closer to that sort
of thing.  It's a lot easier to rely on other people's work
than to try to implement anything like that on our own.  In any
case, the underlying Stella system is open source, so you would
be free to experiment.  We would be happy to incorporate real
improvements to Stella in the main source.

Gmane